JavaScript right on the hardware • Hacker News Board

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#291

Post by chad_oliver » Thu, Aug 15, 2013, 2:40 PM UTC

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #140

chad_oliver wrote: post #6

This is very cool, but I don't see how it can compete with boards like the BeagleBone Black. The BleagleBone Black is $45 for a 1GHz CPU and 512 MB of memory, yet the access to low-level hardware is just as good.

Very, very different things. The BBB and the Raspberry Pi are designed to be relatively high-power (both computational, and power draw from DC) devices running a true multiuser OS. This thing is more akin to an Arduino Micro or a Teensy - a low-power controller that could run a very long time on a tiny battery, no OS to speak of, just a single loop of essentially real-time code. I just made a hardware clock for my PC…

Yes, but if you're using javascript you're probably not aiming for long battery life or high performance per dollar. Tessel is not like an ATmega 8; it's like a BBB.

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#292

Post by soapdog » Thu, Aug 15, 2013, 3:12 PM UTC

PommeDeTerre wrote: post #192

soapdog wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just to answer you: I Like Javascript. I like my functions as first class citizens. I like my prototypes and my inheritance model. I like my callbacks and my closures. I like how I can move from client-side, to server-side, to my TV, all with the same language. I like how easy it is for beginners to produce something useful and for seasoned developers to produce something good. There are many other languages that sha…

How much experience do you personally have with other programming languages, aside from JavaScript (and perhaps PHP, if you're familiar with it)?

In recent times I have delivered commercial products in PHP, Python, Ruby and LiveCode. In the past (way past more than 10 years) I used to work with VB, Delphi, REBOL and some Java. While I was coursing engineering, we learned scheme (its great!)

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#293

Post by jmagoon » Thu, Aug 15, 2013, 3:16 PM UTC

twog wrote: post #16

So much negativity in this thread & on HN in general. Not everyone has hardware experience, and this looks great for newcomers.

A general attitude that I've seen as a new user on HN (and a new developer): "If you don't learn something you enjoy (messing with computers) in exactly the same way that I did, you're wrong!"

For some, there's no joy in complexity or inspiration in learning. Just wrong or right--generally with "my way" being right. What a shame!

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#294

Post by cenhyperion » Thu, Aug 15, 2013, 3:17 PM UTC

test-it wrote: post #186

marssaxman wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what you mean by that. I meant exactly what I said: I feel sorry for anyone whose linguistic toolbox is so limited that Javascript is their best option for writing low-level code for manipulating electronic devices. It is hard to imagine a more profound mismatch between the tool and the problem it is supposed to solve.

I feel sorry you lack basic understanding of linguistics. Any major programming platform today is too complex for a single individual to understand completely. One can spend his time learning several languages (and the platform they run on) or concentrate on a single language. I'd say it's obvious the second choice leads to higher productivity. You don't see professional musicians trying to play 10 different instrume…

>You don't see professional musicians trying to play 10 different instruments on world level.

That's funny because most of the full time musicians I know can play 3-6 instruments really really well. Kind of like how most of the full time programmers I know can program in multiple languages really well.

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#295

Post by soapdog » Thu, Aug 15, 2013, 3:18 PM UTC

farnsworth wrote: post #217

soapdog wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just to answer you: I Like Javascript. I like my functions as first class citizens. I like my prototypes and my inheritance model. I like my callbacks and my closures. I like how I can move from client-side, to server-side, to my TV, all with the same language. I like how easy it is for beginners to produce something useful and for seasoned developers to produce something good. There are many other languages that sha…

It sounds like you don't like Javascript as a language, you like it because it just happens to be successful and ubiquitous.

Check my second paragraph, I quote some of things I like most in js as a language. Nothing there is exclusivity of javascript and many other languages implement the same features but I do enjoy javascript as a language and the fact that it is evolving, successful and ubiquitous helps a lot.

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#296

Post by lifeformed » Thu, Aug 15, 2013, 3:19 PM UTC

PommeDeTerre wrote: post #271

lifeformed wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to program a little thingy to do fun stuff, and this is it. I don't care about languages, I already know js.

I think that your "I don't care about languages, I already know js." attitude perfectly describes the problem with many JavaScript programmers. This sort of proud basking in ignorance is shameful, and should be considered unacceptable. It is absurd to limit yourself to learning about just one programming language, especially when that language is so rife with flaws, and perhaps the worst widely-used programming langu…

I don't care about the tools at all, I just want to make things. If I can have something up and running in 5 minutes, great. I might enjoy it enough to dig deeper and learn something more complicated (maybe even a new language!). But if it takes an hour just to hello world, I probably wouldn't bother. These are just toys I might have fun with.

And I do know many other languages, I just don't want to learn a whole new one just so I can play with a new toy. Not everyone needs to be a programmer. Just because someone happens to know js doesn't mean they're interested in being the best programmer in the world.

Just because I enjoy brewing my own cup of coffee once in a while, doesn't mean I need to perfect the art of grinding my own beans by hand and crafting the perfect espresso.

I got into programming by playing with Lego Mindstorms when I was a kid. The building block coding interface was really fun and intuitive. "Oh no," a purist would sneer, "you can't code like that, it's horrible. Here, read this tome on C and microcontroller programming before you start." No thanks. I got to enjoy the end result immediately (making a fun robot), and then from there I could look further into making something more complicated, which ignited my programming journey.

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#297

Post by Aldo_MX » Thu, Aug 15, 2013, 3:39 PM UTC

TheZenPsycho wrote: post #179

Aldo_MX wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lua is a language designed to be embeddable, Javascript is a language that didn't even had the chance to be properly designed. Although I'm one of those Lua "unadopters", for me it's better to simplify stuff to my audience, and I have considered seriously to use JavaScript for my next project instead of Lua.

Both javascript and lua were designed for very similar goals. It just so happens that the designers of Lua had more time to do it- plus they aren't burdened with the need to always be backwards compatible, so lua (now at version 5) breaks scripts written for older versions. So they each have their trade offs.

I'm pretty confident that if Lua were as widespread as JavaScript is, a backwards incompatible change would be less likely to happen, although with Corona SDK, I'm also confident that Lua will have an opportunity to shine :).

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#298

Post by aanand » Thu, Aug 15, 2013, 3:44 PM UTC

TheZenPsycho wrote: post #182

Sharma wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone said once "If it CAN be developed in Javascript, eventually it WILL be developed in javascript"

That's "Atwood's Law" The name of it is a hint as to who said it.

Good ol’ Margaret.

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#299

Post by dkuntz2 » Thu, Aug 15, 2013, 5:10 PM UTC

zhemao wrote: post #222

dkuntz2 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your college education for becoming a developer didn't teach you a lower level language it failed you. Even at my small liberal arts school we use multiple languages (they may all be really, really similar, but they're different languages), and work on low-level things. I'm aghast that a CS education wouldn't include at least Java, especially considering that a large number of schools switched exclusively to Java…

You know, he never said he was a CS or engineering major.

Yes. But he said he's a professional developer, which implies to me that he should strive to learn new things, like a statically typed language...

Re: JavaScript right on the hardware

#300

Post by marssaxman » Thu, Aug 15, 2013, 5:33 PM UTC

test-it wrote: post #186

marssaxman wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what you mean by that. I meant exactly what I said: I feel sorry for anyone whose linguistic toolbox is so limited that Javascript is their best option for writing low-level code for manipulating electronic devices. It is hard to imagine a more profound mismatch between the tool and the problem it is supposed to solve.

I feel sorry you lack basic understanding of linguistics. Any major programming platform today is too complex for a single individual to understand completely. One can spend his time learning several languages (and the platform they run on) or concentrate on a single language. I'd say it's obvious the second choice leads to higher productivity. You don't see professional musicians trying to play 10 different instrume…

It is not obvious to me; in fact I would argue the opposite. Each new language generally has an interesting new idea or two, and learning a new language can expand your conceptual toolbox even if you never write enough code in it to consider yourself a master.

I don't know how I'd count the languages I've used so far, but it is certainly more than ten. I'm not fluent in all of them, but almost every one has taught me something. For the most extreme example, I still can't even read Haskell code, and I've never written a lick of it, but in reading about Haskell I picked up some ideas which have had a profound influence on the way I write code in other languages.

One of the reasons I am not a fan of Javascript is that I didn't learn anything from it. All of its bits were obviously cribbed together in haste from other languages. This is no slight on Brendan Eich, who was given something like two weeks to design it, but it's a shame that the most widely used programming language of all time has to be such a mess.