Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 420 posts

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#291

Post by tptacek »

Anderkent wrote: post #281
tptacek wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the argument you're making is irrational. You're a $100k/yr FTE dev. A VP above you makes $200k/yr. You believe that VP should be making $50k/yr. But your position isn't improved at all if they do. You're still making $100k/yr, and someone else is taking the $150k/yr premium. So you say, "no, I should get a share of that $150k/yr premium." Well, OK, why aren't you? What you're saying is that you're worth more tha…

> The flip side of this, if it helps make the point clearer: you're a $100k/yr dev. The VP at your company is already making $50k/yr. This is good how? By any logic you could employ in the above scenario, you're worth more than $100k/yr in this scenario too. The difference is in one scenario you're talking about a company that can pay out 300k a year, and in the other it's only 150k. Fairness is not about absolute nu…

Are you doing work worth 250k a year? Why are you accepting 100k for it? Do you think every dollar generated by a company is allocated to salary? That's a company with a 0% (or worse) margin.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#292

Post by auvi »

petercooper wrote: post #282
acangiano wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remote-work-friendly companies can capitalize on that.

They sure do :) Can't name names but I know at least one of the biggest (and wealthiest) companies in the Rails apps scene pays its remote employees a fair wage by where those employees live , not by what would be acceptable in Chicago.

37 Signals it is then.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#293

Post by rwallace »

sopooneo wrote: post #90

Why are the salaries so much lower than in the States? I know part of it is that demand outstrips supply here, so perhaps my question resolves to why there is less demand. I assume that the point of software is that it can be an efficiency multiplier, so if you hire someone to automate a process, that is either reducing costs or increasing revenue, which should be fundamentally valuable. I am deeply ignorant here and…

The level of sheer incompetence in management of European software companies is pretty staggering if you're used to Silicon Valley standards; it's common to hire programmers who have no idea how to write a program, use completely obsolete tools, have no clue about design or process and little clue about marketing etc.

The result is that companies don't actually make a huge amount of money from each programmer so they often genuinely can't afford to pay good salaries.

On the bright side, if you are a competent manager or willing to learn to be one, and willing to either stomach European employment legislation or hire remotely, you could treat our continent as a bounty of little-used resources.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#295

Post by tucker1128 »

Working in London is not great as a dev or in technology as a whole. I'm a dev working in London. My 1st job out of Uni I was paid 15k working for a start up. After gaining an years experience I left and move onto a US company that paid me 25k initially and now after 2 years my pays 45k.

Pay in London is a lot less then SV but that's acceptable we don't have as much VC funding for start ups. One issue allot UK companies/starts ups have is that they all think they can offshore all devolopment work, allot companies are slowly learning that having in-house devs are the way forwards. But the UK has got that dev is somthing we can off shore mentality an due to that pay for dev is substantially lower then some area's in the US.

Also don't let some of the high flyers pay( from the banking industryy ) fool you into understanding the average wage in the UK. The average wage in the UK is fairly low.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#296

Post by fractalsea »

Nursie wrote: post #119
VexXtreme wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That tends to be the case mostly everywhere in Europe. For that matter, most places in the world outside the US (and Silicon Valley) tend not to pay software engineers very competitively. I am from a fairly small central European country and programmers there barely make more than other professions; the salaries often amount to the national average.

They pay just fine in Australia. Of course the cost of living is alsop very high.

I also work in Australia (having come from UK after finishing my uni degree last year), and am already being paid $75k AUD (nearly £50k). For this reason I was shocked to see how low the salaries were for London, and working for an Australian company remote in England is what I'll aim to do in the future. Being here has been a great way to form connections.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#297

Post by ascotan »

mseebach wrote: post #137
sopooneo wrote: post #90

Why are the salaries so much lower than in the States? I know part of it is that demand outstrips supply here, so perhaps my question resolves to why there is less demand. I assume that the point of software is that it can be an efficiency multiplier, so if you hire someone to automate a process, that is either reducing costs or increasing revenue, which should be fundamentally valuable. I am deeply ignorant here and…

They're not lower than in the States, they are lower than the bay area, which is a very, very small bit of the States. Also, it's dominated by a particular kind of business (VC funded startups) that have the cash and mandate to spend a lot of money on engineering salaries. These are not too common outside the bay area, and certainly not as concentrated anywhere.

Actually I would say that they are lower that in the U.S. Again it depends on where in the U.S. you're talking about but I would say that £40 is entry level, £50K is for a intermediate level £70K for senior and £100K is pretty much the max before you hit management.

I would say that salaries like this are pretty much on par with most major metro areas in the U.S. (not just silicon valley)

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#298

Post by tudorconstantin »

VexXtreme wrote: post #38
SandB0x wrote: post #13

The software industry here in London is really badly paid, for salaried jobs outside finance at least. I know plenty of developers who started at £20-25k as graduates from decent universities and whose salary has slowly risen to 40k over quite a few years. PhD graduates making £35-45k too.

That tends to be the case mostly everywhere in Europe. For that matter, most places in the world outside the US (and Silicon Valley) tend not to pay software engineers very competitively. I am from a fairly small central European country and programmers there barely make more than other professions; the salaries often amount to the national average.

In Romania an entry level dev gets 30% more than the national average and that raises quickly. In 7-8 years he's able to earn 400%+ more than national average. And still be paid less than an entry level in UK.

National average net income is about 400 euros

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#299

Post by dschiptsov »

gaius wrote: post #74
SandB0x wrote: post #13

The software industry here in London is really badly paid, for salaried jobs outside finance at least. I know plenty of developers who started at £20-25k as graduates from decent universities and whose salary has slowly risen to 40k over quite a few years. PhD graduates making £35-45k too.

It's the legacy of the old class system rearing its ugly head. No matter how well educated, and from what prestigious colleges, (software) engineering is blue-collar work and will never be as well paid as the "graduate management fast-track" type with a sociology degree from a "red brick". Finance isn't highly paid for software work, it's fairly paid, by world standards, only because they contrary to popular belief,…

There is more in "the old class system" (or the caste system) than just attending elite college. It is genes.

You like it or not, breeding matters a lot. What all those companies buy is not grades, it is not even a particular phenotype, it is a few generations of fine breeding, well-educated parents and relatives, etc.

So, most of those guys "with a sociology degree" worth it, you like it or not. It is just one of these small unpleasant truths about life.

Re: Poll: Full-time software engineers in London, what's your annual salary?

#300

Post by [deleted] »

gaius wrote: post #74
SandB0x wrote: post #13

The software industry here in London is really badly paid, for salaried jobs outside finance at least. I know plenty of developers who started at £20-25k as graduates from decent universities and whose salary has slowly risen to 40k over quite a few years. PhD graduates making £35-45k too.

It's the legacy of the old class system rearing its ugly head. No matter how well educated, and from what prestigious colleges, (software) engineering is blue-collar work and will never be as well paid as the "graduate management fast-track" type with a sociology degree from a "red brick". Finance isn't highly paid for software work, it's fairly paid, by world standards, only because they contrary to popular belief,…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN