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Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models

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Re: Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models

#291

Post by froggit »

ozgrakkurt wrote: post #205
novaleaf wrote: post #141

Some irony: I subscribe to Claude and Codex (20x plans), and now Kimi. Why Kimi? because K3 is the only frontier model I can have a serious conversation with about my product's security. (I did apply for OpenAi's Cyber Pilot but got no response)

> K3 is the only frontier model I can have a serious conversation with about my product's security. This is wrong IMO. You should have a serious conversation about your products security with someone who is actually trained on that subject. LLMs are useless if you don't already know more about the thing than the LLM, or if you don't care too much about the outcome (internal tools etc.)

> This is wrong IMO. You should have a serious conversation about your products security with someone who is actually trained on that subject. LLMs are useless if you don't already know more about the thing than the LLM, or if you don't care too much about the outcome (internal tools etc.)

How did you read: "K3 is the only FRONTIER MODEL I can have a serious conversation with about my product's security" and infer that there isn't anyone with training also in the loop?

Did you seriously think: "they use an LLM so it's impossible they use a human with cyber experience; it's not like they could be using both (as would be expected when securing code). I'll help them out by using an oversimplified explanation suitable for a small child yet completely missing the OPs meaning. "?

Re: Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models

#292

Post by manincharge »

cyanydeez wrote: post #22
paxys wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different companies have different motivations. I'm sure some are genuine, but a lot of them simply lost the race (to OpenAI/Anthropic/Google) and know they can't compete anymore, so are shifting strategies. How many times has Microsoft done exactly this in the past?

looking at both openai and anthropic; they are winning something, but a sober look at their finances will make you silently mouth "but what did they win".

Next year's archeologists will dig out their fossilized remnants.

Re: Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models

#293

Post by zekrioca »

somenameforme wrote: post #117
christina97 wrote: post #9

I wonder what is happening behind closed doors for these companies to be issuing such a joint letter.

The future will probably have most of all companies running local models, simply because the alternative would be essentially every company that uses LLMs ending up becoming completely dependent upon Anthropic et al. And that dependence would be milked to the point of absurdity once solidly established. And as a more general point - more major competitors in a domain is very good for everybody except those competitor…

But what does that mean for the US competitive leap in AI when compared to China? Is it an admission by these companies that AI models are here to stay and the US will not “win” by being the only country with the best of models? Genuinely asking, not sure about the answer.

Re: Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models

#294

Post by fidotron »

lenerdenator wrote: post #166
fidotron wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is did the US reaction work or was it completely counter productive? Then will attempting to cutoff China again today work or do we expect that also will prove to achieve the exact opposite of what its proponents are claiming?

We didn't cut off anything. American companies would have been more than happy to continue offering products and services in the Chinese market. The Chinese government didn't like that idea. They attacked American companies, stole the IP, and created their own analogs of American corporate offerings. If you are a company and are targeted by a totalitarian government, it's not unreasonable to pull out of that totalita…

> When China was expected to play by those rules and allow American companies to do business in a mostly-unfettered way, they attacked the companies and drove them out of their market.

This deserves to be pinned in the eternal HN hall of shame for absolutely staggering blind hypocrisy.

Re: Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models

#295

Post by zekrioca »

lenerdenator wrote: post #176
scronkfinkle wrote: post #89

I don't feel it's meaningful to berate the point anymore about the hypocrisy of the American labs. Now as the sentiment and effort from them to push for regulation increases so does my perception of how pathetic they are behaving. I'm not sure how else to say it other than that it's honestly just embarrassing to watch China and others run circles around us in the USA.

> I'm not sure how else to say it other than that it's honestly just embarrassing to watch China and others run circles around us in the USA. The gap is shrinking, but considering their models still lag our frontier, I wouldn't say they "run circles" around us.

And what would you say, Sherlock?

Re: Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models

#296

Post by froggit »

paradoxyl wrote: post #281
adastra22 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They never did that. They said all they required was a human in the loop for kill decisions. No autonomous kill drones.

yes, what paragrons of virtue who lie about all their financials.

Is it still lying if they just lost track of where all the debt is hidden and stopped caring about those little things? They're seriously like 2 months out from achieving AGI and making more money than god.

Re: Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models

#298

Post by zekrioca »

himata4113 wrote: post #85
0xc0c0c0 wrote: post #82

I thought it would've made a lot of sense for Apple to be on this list as well.

Apple would be rather unaffected since they already signed a deal with Google/Gemini.

They also run Chinese models for their china-based iPhones. So they would benefit from models being open.

Re: Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models

#299

Post by jononor »

bee_rider wrote: post #130
petcat wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nvidia is subject to export restrictions on GPUs to China. So Chinese labs have responded by allowing American hosts to run their open-weight models in the US, where there are no restrictions. We see this in the EU too where Scaleway, and now Hetzner are getting into the inference host space serving Chinese open-weight models. So Nvidia benefits from more inference providers running many Chinese models that they othe…

Oh, that’s interesting. I think the general expectation was that blocking exports to China would result in companies there building their own cards competing with NVIDIA. If it has incentivized them to release open weight models instead, that seems like an unexpected win.

The cards are also coming... Some of the very first are already out - but it will take a couple of years before they hit their stride in full. And cards will likely be primarily for Chinese companies initially, and then go for exports later. So it will go under the radar for many western techies for a while. Seeing what China has managed with PCB production, low to mid-end semiconductors, phone manufacturing and electric I would hesitate to bet against them.

Nvidia is now lobbying to remove the export ban, to try to reduce the incentives for developing their own high-end LLM training/serving (and cash in on current demand).

Re: Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta warn against overregulating open-weight models

#300

Post by cyanydeez »

manincharge wrote: post #292
cyanydeez wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

looking at both openai and anthropic; they are winning something, but a sober look at their finances will make you silently mouth "but what did they win".

Next year's archeologists will dig out their fossilized remnants.

pretty optimistic to think there'll befunded expeditions.
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