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Apple - Think Twice

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Re: Apple - Think Twice

#291

Post by bilbo0s »

konstruktor wrote: post #143
Mutinix wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my understanding of the comment, he wasn't blaming the customer. Rather, he's trying to say that people shouldn't rush to buy the revision A (or version 1 or 1st generation or whatever) of an Apple product. Instead, wait for the initial (and what are now expected) flaws to be fixed and then buy them. However, I think this is a problem that is likely to happen with any company, not just Apple.

In most markets, the law does not allow beta products and caveat emptor. Warranties against product flaws are mandatory. Personally, I would consider ghosting as shown by the OP a defect covered by warranty. In addition to that, a premium brand should treat early adopters well, especially those who bought the flagship product. This is the point OP seems to be making. However, due to their own design decisions, they h…

"...Warranties against product flaws are mandatory..."

If that were true...

the software industry would be in REAL trouble.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#292

Post by dagw »

burriko wrote: post #139

Interesting. I've had the exact same problem, and yet what happened to me was the best customer service I've ever experienced. I had bought a 15" retina MBP at launch, but only noticed the ghosting last month. After booking an appointment with a 'genius' online I arrived ready to argue my case. What actually happened was that the 'genius' agreed with me straight away that the ghosting was intolerable, and without doi…

My dad broke the screen on his work Dell laptop. Entirely his fault. He called up Dell and they said they'd send a tech to his office to replace the screen. My dad said he was working from home that day and Dell said fair enough and sent the tech to his house. He had the screen fixed later that afternoon.

Now obviously I'm sure my dad's company pays handsomely for that service, but my point is that many companies do a lot better than Apple if you're willing to pay for it.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#293

Post by mistermann »

baddox wrote: post #268
jrochkind1 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But your specs for what you repair have to be reasonable if you want to have customers think you deliver a high quality product (and if you want to actually do so). Two dead pixels near the edge of the screen, okay, most of us think, that's still usable, I'll soon stop noticing. (How many is 'most of us'? Enough that a monitor company can do that, and still be considered to deliver a high quality product). The ghosti…

I think I agree, but there's still a tone in your and OP's words that makes it sound like you're appealing to some objective measure of a "high quality product." Obviously, there is no such thing, and different problems will frustrate different people. It's quite possible that 99% of MBP buyers would never even notice that ghosting problem. Does that still make the MBP a "low quality product," and are Apple's policie…

> I think I agree, but there's still a tone in your and OP's words that makes it sound like you're appealing to some objective measure of a "high quality product."

> It's quite possible that 99% of MBP buyers would never even notice that ghosting problem.

Here's my takeaway from this incident. This problem doesn't affect 99% of users. If Apple needed to ensure this particular problem (almost) never occurs, it would cost a lot of money, for something that doesn't in fact affect most people.

Having a test as described in the article is worthwhile for shooing away the x% of the 99% of people for whom it really doesn't matter. But when a professional for whom it does matter comes into your store, and it is obvious that it does matter and he has done his homework on the issue, then when that person is treated like everyone else, to me it shows Apple no longer cares about professionals.

To do a certain kind of work, you need certain performance from your hardware. In the past, you could be certain that you could get it from Apple hardware, and if there was a problem, they would make it right. This seems no longer to be the case. The "new" Apple gets such a high percentage of their revenue from the consumer market, the "casuals", that they now have the power to thumb their nose at the power users and professionals, and it will have 0 noticeable impact on their bottom line. And it would seem they are now choosing to use that power.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#294

Post by sbuk »

w1ntermute wrote: post #135
astrodust wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're essentially saying that any computer with a metal case, or extensive metal shielding inside could suffer the same problem. HP makes a number of metal laptops, for instance, in an effort to make them more recyclable, the same reasoning behind Apple's materials decision. Why would I buy a Lenovo T-series? It looks virtually indistinguishable from any laptop made in the late 1990s and still has that absurd red jo…

> Why would I buy a Lenovo T-series? It looks virtually indistinguishable from any laptop made in the late 1990s and still has that absurd red joystick. And with that statement you just exposed how ignorant you really are. The TrackPoint is far superior to any trackpad out there. In fact, I don't even use a mouse with my desktop - I have a USB version of the ThinkPad keyboard[0]. With the TrackPoint, you can use the…

"You really need to stop drinking the Apple Kool-aid..."

I think that you should stop using such inflammatory language and grow up a bit.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#295

Post by meaty »

beala wrote: post #278
meaty wrote: post #24

I wouldn't buy another Apple product either. Between a MacBook Pro which caught fire, an AirPort which melted, an iMac which the backlight went on and a MacBook which had to go back 4 times (!) due to logic board problems, it scares the shit out of me parting with that sort of cash and actually depending on it. The muppets at the "genius bar" (retard shelf as we call it now) aren't exactly helpful and usher you away…

You've had four different products that have either melted, caught fire, or suffered hardware failures? Are you sure it's not an issue with the power coming out of your outlets? Perhaps the Lenovos have better power filtering, but by the sound of it, you're pretty paranoid about those failing, too.

The power is fine. Everything computer-wise comes off the back off a large APC UPS. Nothing but apple kit has ever failed on it.

Regarding owning two, its because I don't put all my eggs in one basket. Why buy one when you can have two for twice the cost.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#297

Post by marknutter »

PeterisP wrote: post #285
marknutter wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't how many times a person has had faulty components/hardware from a supplier affect a person's feeling about that supplier?

Not really - basic psych says that a person who needed repairs and had them done in an emotionally pleasing way will be happier about the supplier than a person who didn't need repairs and so didn't care. But rationally it's quite clear that it is better to not need repairs (=waste time) in the first place. It's the same as in many jobs - saving the day in a disaster will get more praise than preventing a disaster fr…

Ah good point. Although I would agree that it's better to not need the repairs in the first place. Either way, Apple has clearly been doing a good job satisfying their customers.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#298

Post by MartinCron »

akeck wrote: post #205

"The second mouse gets the cheese." - Since my iBook died multiple deaths via its BPGA socket, I've learned to buy rev. 2 or rev. 3 products for all my Apple purchases, when possible. It's consistent with my experience in avoiding x.0 software releases. It's really cool when a company treads new ground, but if you need reliability, it's best to let others test the first round.

I've learned to buy rev. 2 or rev. 3 products for all my Apple purchases, when possible

It's not just Apple products. A few years ago, I bought the first model year of a new car. That's not something I'll ever do again.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#299

Post by keithpeter »

burriko wrote: post #139

Interesting. I've had the exact same problem, and yet what happened to me was the best customer service I've ever experienced. I had bought a 15" retina MBP at launch, but only noticed the ghosting last month. After booking an appointment with a 'genius' online I arrived ready to argue my case. What actually happened was that the 'genius' agreed with me straight away that the ghosting was intolerable, and without doi…

UK or US? OP is in UK. Might be a significant fact, sadly.

Re: Apple - Think Twice

#300

Post by sbuk »

Breakthrough wrote: post #76
michael_miller wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, you have to keep in mind that Apple is producing millions of units and, for its own sake, can't be beholden to a single supplier. If they were, that supplier would have enormous leverage ("pay us $5b now, or we will stop shipping you screens for your flagship laptop."). Aside from that, they'd also be susceptible to production issues - imagine if Samsung's factory had a fire/flood/hurricane and…

You have absolutely no concept of the difference between "leverage" and "extortion", the latter of which is exactly what you described. Last I checked, not only is extorting your customers bad for business, it's probably illegal. That being said, I'm going to dare throw an anti-Apple comment in here: after all the BS Apple's pulled in the past few years, I'm sure most people in the world wouldn't blink twice if Samsu…

The BS? Samsung copied their work...
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