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College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

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Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#291

Post by amtamt »

madrox wrote: post #244
amtamt wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rather than banning the use of AI and trying to catch students who are cheating, why aren't they creating schoolwork that requires AI? That is way to high recurring cost that many won't be able to afford. One could get a second hand calculator or even computer, and then additional resources needed was one's willingness. With mandating AI usage, we'd only increase the gap of haves and have-nots. I personally do not…

This is probably the fairest counter argument I’ve heard. One can hope that today’s AI will eventually be as cheap as a calculator, though.

I hope so too, however cheap is relative. One's ordinary morning coffee is a full day wage for someone else. If we could have decent models fitting laptops of most students, that would be point where we could possibly treat AI as we treat calculator or computer today.

Just to put things in context, https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce8444gex65o shares income for a good number of people now a days. (note that many of those workers are taking care of a family of 2+ members, most of the time)

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#292

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

musicale wrote: post #96
jason_zig wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is evaluation that important? ultimately if you can't do the work you're only cheating yourself in the long run...

That is the traditional view, the view of those who want to improve their own knowledge and abilities, and presumably the view of those who would like to consider the degree to be a meaningful credential. However I suspect that there are many who 1) are more concerned about the short term outcome, 2) consider the degree/diploma to be little more than a meal ticket or arbitrary gatekeeping without any connection to le…

I'm curious about the objective competence of recent graduates compared to previous cohorts, not just in tech but in basic literacy and numeracy.

A lot of Gen Z are ferociously anti-AI, but for tribal and emotional reasons, not because of a nuanced understanding - which is ironic, because the nuanced reasons for being wary of AI are much stronger than the usual talking points about "stealing art".

Being tribal and emotional is going to make Gen Z easier to replace, because nuanced strategic insight is less common and more useful.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#293

Post by muzzleflash »

zozbot234 wrote: post #257
latexr wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but in fact it is easy for anyone with access to $1000-$2000 worth of compute Even if we assume that to be true, you severely underestimate how many people that condition excludes.

There are simpler LLMs that run on much cheaper devices and are still helpful for baseline tasks. Of course they are prone to hallucinating once they reach the limits of their world knowledge, but this also changes their effectiveness in an educational context: they can help you polish a paper (much of their reliable knowledge is about language, syntax and style/pragmatics of the input texts), but you still have to p…

Maybe teaching students to take their whatever devices to run AI is the way, sure. All I tried to say is if we're teaching students to think independently, we should teach them independent tools.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#294

Post by ilovecake1984 »

curun1r wrote: post #229

I'm old enough to remember a similar controversy over whether to allow calculators in math classes. While most schools were banning them to force kids to learn how to do math without them, my school went the other way. They mandated that every student had one and then changed the assignments and tests to account for it. Gone were questions that had whole number answers that could be computed in our heads. Instead, an…

In the Uk we have two exam papers that make up the age 16 mathematics exam. In one you use a calculator and one your don’t.

You need to be able to do both things. We don’t need to make it a choice.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#295

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

jimbokun wrote: post #195
jason_zig wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is evaluation that important? ultimately if you can't do the work you're only cheating yourself in the long run...

It’s important to signaling to employers you have obtained skills useful to them. And for most students that’s all they really care about. If the companies stop valuing the diplomas, students will stop paying tuition to attend, and the universities eventually collapse.

This assumes employers will still exist.

You can imagine a world where the Corporate or State AI handles education, tailors it to individual student levels and talents, and assigns work based on its own direct experience of a lifetime of interaction.

You can also imagine that in that world where most humans would be redundant - unless the AI was optimising for human-to-human jobs and for evidence of unusual insight and creativity, not managing bullshit work for corporate profit.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#296

Post by ivankelly »

mekael wrote: post #113
ivankelly wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the way things are going, not knowing how to use AI will be like coming out not knowing about revision control

I think you’re missing the /s.

Not at all. It’s a tool. It can be used well and it can be used badly, the difference often being others things thought in a CS curriculum. But a well trained engineer using the tool will be more productive than that engineer doing everything by hand, so leaving that tool out of the curriculum is doing a disservice to the students

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#297

Post by ivankelly »

maplethorpe wrote: post #111
ivankelly wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the way things are going, not knowing how to use AI will be like coming out not knowing about revision control

Isn't the selling point of AI that it does it for you? What's to learn?

There’s a big difference between using AI well and using it badly. Judgement is what needs to be learnt

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#298

Post by Gander5739 »

kelnos wrote: post #224
vunderba wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even Microsoft Word stores revision history inside .docx files, and that’s been used to expose plagiarism. I heard about one case where a student took an existing paper (I believe from a previous year/student) and pasted it into Word. They then edited it just enough to make it look different. However, they didn’t remove the embedded revision history in the .docx file they submitted, so that went about as well as you…

> pasted it into Word I'd be surprised if copy/paste carries the revision history, though. Wouldn't they have had to start with the original document (from the other student) and make their edits directly, and then submit that file?

I think they mean the revision history in the submitted .docx file showed the copied paper being inserted (as a single change), and then various changes to attempt to hide the plagiarism.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#299

Post by mbf1 »

raincole wrote: post #188
stingraycharles wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah exactly, I remember having to write Java and C++ by hand in college in the early 2000s. It was also a good test how well you knew the syntax.

College exam tests C++ syntax and people frame it as a good thing. Interesting. It sounds almost indefensible for me. If it were Scheme perhaps it would be okay, but C++ and Java...

We are at a point in AI where colleges teaching computer science are having students hand write code. It is what it is. This is about academic honesty^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H integrity. In order to measure academic success we have to measure the person learning, not the machinery.

Re: College instructor turns to typewriters to curb AI-written work

#300

Post by delis-thumbs-7e »

ryanSrich wrote: post #189

For programming, the way I would build a curriculum is to force students to actually learn how to program and code first. This is simple by requiring them to write code inside the classroom by hand for all exams. I would make this the focus for 90% of the first 2 years of their degree. I would then have them spend 75% of their last 2 years learning how to use and program with AI. Aside from knowing how things actuall…

First part is basically my degree. You can cheat as much you want, but when you have to write algorithms by hand on paper in the exam it doesn’t matter - you will have to learn. Then depending what you want to do for masters it’s basically machine learning, which mostly mathematics.

I don’t know why you’d need to teach anyone to code with LMM’s though. If you are a CS major (or any reasonably intelligent person) and can’t figure it out on your own, well, workd needs bakers and carpenters still you know?

What I am learning is mathematics, which what all CS including AI and machine learning, really is. ”Mastering AI” for me means building your own models and AI applications and undestanding linear algebra, multivariable calculus and the propability theory behind it all.

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