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Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

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Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#291

Post by janalsncm »

tw04 wrote: post #234
will4274 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U6 is also historically low though. America is as fully employed as just about anytime in the past 50 years. Using a different metric may have different raw numbers, but the conclusion is the same.

>America is as fully employed as just about anytime in the past 50 years. And what percentage of those workers are Walmart or Amazon warehouse employees who don't have healthcare coverage and don't make enough money to actually cover their monthly bills without being on welfare/public assistance? Because my linkedin extended network says there's an awful lot of highly skilled people unable to find jobs in their respe…

U6 is supposed to take under employment into account, so their answer would be less than 8%. Hard to know how accurate it is though.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#292

Post by mulmen »

thesmtsolver2 wrote: post #239
mulmen wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because their H1B status is tied to their job so they will put up with way more abuse.

Is there any data on this at all?

H-1B is a non-immigrant work visa. This should be enough information for you to understand the incentives.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#293

Post by Muromec »

Izikiel43 wrote: post #259
Muromec wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is mostly clamping down on asylum seekers that are abusing the procedural rules, despite not having a solid claim on asylum. Think of someone from a place that isn't nice enough, but well above the threshold of absolute shitshow with genocidal aftertaste that allows protection. Such people, by virtue of claiming to require asylum get temporary protection and right to residence and then clog the system by appea…

> asylum seekers that are abusing the procedural rules, despite not having a solid claim on asylum. Out of curiosity, isn't that the same case as what happened with the Biden immigration surges, at least Venezuela? And now the current administration is taking action?

I'm not familiar with the American context enough to answer that. My understanding is that US was always very lax with immigration enforcement, where a lot of people are neither given the legal rights nor deported, while EU (mostly Western part of) was more willing to give some sort of legal residence, so people can pay taxes, fines and have incentive to learn the language. I don't really understand what was the problem with giving residence permits to the refugees from Venezuela in the first place, but again, I'm not familiar with this circus.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#294

Post by Muromec »

nxm wrote: post #230
Muromec wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is mostly clamping down on asylum seekers that are abusing the procedural rules, despite not having a solid claim on asylum. Think of someone from a place that isn't nice enough, but well above the threshold of absolute shitshow with genocidal aftertaste that allows protection. Such people, by virtue of claiming to require asylum get temporary protection and right to residence and then clog the system by appea…

[flagged]

Yeah, before open borders became a left thingy, it was called free market so local business gets that cheap labor. Now, once the profits are booked is the time of the classic switcheroo -- put the negative externalities on the society and blaming the left for trying to deal with them.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#295

Post by fooker »

moshegramovsky wrote: post #275
fooker wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your factory analogy is great because that's exactly how it happened and we outsourced everything to China. It's significantly easier to outsource white collar work. And you can keep playing the regulation game until there are no companies left.

Right but you act like nothing can be done about that. If you outsource enough then don't count on the US government to protect you overseas. Go ahead and risk nationalization. The very fact that we are having this discussion shows how bad the situation is: companies can effectively threaten to move all their jobs overseas, thereby threatening US workers with economic ruin. That's not okay. The government grants broa…

That seems like a weird tangent.

If you give companies the ability to choose US government protection against their overseas operations being nationalized versus the ability to hire foreigners on work visas, the overwhelming majority of companies will choose the latter.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#296

Post by renewiltord »

remarkEon wrote: post #288
renewiltord wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn’t be the first time that “labour” found itself completely undone through idealistic foolishness. Bernie Sanders wants to end the H-1B with no replacement lined up. Labor was slain by the Ayatollah in Iran.

I’m confused, why would we need a replacement for the H-1B “lined up”? The O-1 visa already exists.

If you’re a foreigner, pay attention to this commenter. He is fairly typical of who your fellow union member will be if you decide to join a union. If you are on a H-1B note that you will have to leave.

Understand carefully the consequences of joining a union. Once empowered this is what will happen to you. Keep your eyes wide open. Remember what the Ayatollah did to his young anti-shah allies.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#297

Post by mtlynch »

subhobroto wrote: post #260
mtlynch wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's missing the point. Ultimately, companies who use H1B visas will outcompete companies who don't because the H1B system gives them cheaper labor costs. The solution has to come at the regulatory level. 150 years ago, if you told someone "oh if you want safer factories just build one yourself," that business would never survive because they'd get outcompeted by the less scrupulous factory owners who were happy to…

> Ultimately, companies who use H1B visas will outcompete companies who don't because the H1B system gives them cheaper labor costs. The solution has to come at the regulatory level. I have utmost respect of your work, a customer of your fantastic product and have been meaning to reach out to you for a while (infact I learned about Cory from your blog in 2021) but I had to push back hard on this. TinyPilot didn't hap…

Thanks for the kind words!

To clarify, I certainly agree it's possible for a business to succeed without using H1B visas, especially for something small at the the scale of TinyPilot (7 people when I sold).

I just mean on a large scale, the companies that use H1B visas will generally outcompete the ones that don't.

What's the cost difference between a US citizen and an H1B? I'd guess it's something around 20% less expensive to hire an H1B visa holder. In an industry like software where the dominant cost is labor, then H1B companies have a 20% advantage over non-H1B companies. Non-H1B companies can outcompete them by being 20% better, but that's a big disadvantage to overcome.

Running my business actually made me oppose H1B visas more. The H1B visa system gives big businesses a massive advantage over small businesses. There's so much frictional cost to hiring someone on an H1B visa (legal fees, admin overhead) that it's not practical if you're only hiring 1-2 employees, but you'll get ROI if you're hiring 10-20. But it just gives an advantage to bigger business, and the advantage wouldn't exist if the H1B system didn't exist or if the government designed it to be employer-agnostic.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#298

Post by mtlynch »

fooker wrote: post #240
mtlynch wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's missing the point. Ultimately, companies who use H1B visas will outcompete companies who don't because the H1B system gives them cheaper labor costs. The solution has to come at the regulatory level. 150 years ago, if you told someone "oh if you want safer factories just build one yourself," that business would never survive because they'd get outcompeted by the less scrupulous factory owners who were happy to…

Your factory analogy is great because that's exactly how it happened and we outsourced everything to China. It's significantly easier to outsource white collar work. And you can keep playing the regulation game until there are no companies left.

I don't understand what you're advocating.

Do you think it's a bad thing that the US implemented occupational safety laws?

I agree that it's not great that many of those risks just shifted overseas, but it's certainly a net positive that American employers can no longer let workers die or get permanently injured and just let the workers absorb those costs.

The H1B visa system isn't just a natural part of capitalism that I want the government to regulate. It's an artificial condition created by bad regulations. You can argue that we shouldn't have immigration restrictions at all since they're an artificial economic constraint, but that's a whole other argument.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#299

Post by skippyboxedhero »

subhobroto wrote: post #252
skippyboxedhero wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear too, this is not capitalism. This is corporatism. Large companies dictating economic companies is anti-innovation. It can only end with disaster and more control/corporatism because lower-productivity workers does not produce higher long-term growth. Temporarily you are able to get your bonus and stock options from the spread between imported and native workers but, eventually, demand and supply stop (and…

> Unfortunately, the Chinese were right About what? Are you familiar with how the life of a Chinese salaryman is going about for the last one year while us in the West are trembling in our shoes about how open weight Chinese models are threatening SOTA frontiers? > Large companies dictating economic companies is anti-innovation Yes but what's the solution? To pass even more regulation against the large companies and…

The Chinese were right about democracy being fundamentally corrupt.

To remove all regulation. Using economic policy to achieve social outcomes is insanity. Even the most free markets ultra would never suggest this, and you have people who are slightly to the left of communist suggesting this...it is worth asking why.

Switzerland and Italy. Two countries that are next to each other, very different story. Slovakia and Germany, adjacent (can't really use Austria because that is somewhere in the middle atm). At a high level, Eastern and Western Europe. Eastern Europe is thriving, Western Europe is struggling to decide whether to arrest people for committing crimes.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#300

Post by pandaman »

hash872 wrote: post #232
peyton wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair the US is pro-immigration and that’s no secret. H1-B is a guest worker visa. Those jobs could equally go to immigrants.

No, H1-B is a dual intent visa- working and a path to a Green Card. It's always been that way

What doe "dual intent" mean and can you show me any government statement confirming that it's a path to a Green Card?
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