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TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

bbc.com

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Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#291

Post by iso1631 »

greygoo222 wrote: post #32
duped wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents shouldn't give their child access to a device that allows DMs. That said, these platforms are making it impossible for parents to monitor anything. They're literally designed to profit off addiction in children.

Why? Plenty of children benefit from talking to other people. Some children need careful monitoring, and some children shouldn't be allowed to use DMs, but it's not universal and should be up to the parents.

Control over who they can talk to (if needed), certainly monitoring of both who they talk to and in many situations what the contents are

At some point between the age of 0 and 18 the child has to be fully ready for an independent world. A cliff edge is a terrible idea, allowing 3 year olds unmonitored uncontrolled conversations with strangers is a terrible idea, but not allowing 15 year olds to talk to their friends is a terrible idea.

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#292

Post by reactordev »

broken-kebab wrote: post #182
jaapz wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents are also allowed to restrict their children access to alcohol and cigarettes, but it seems a government ban on them buying those things works better

Doesn't seem to be a universal truth to me. As a teenager I had rather easy access to both cigarettes and alcohol in spite of usual age-restrictions legally imposed. I didn't care what gov't thinks about it. I did care about what my parents would do if I caught drunk though. That was my real barrier.

There was always some guy outside willing to make $10 to buy what you needed.

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#293

Post by DoneWithAllThat »

londons_explore wrote: post #188
Traster wrote: post #178

I think this is... fine? Am I just totally naive. I think it's fine to say "You don't really have privacy on this app" - as long as there are relatively good options of apps that do have privacy (and I think there are). TikTok is really a public by default type of social media, there's not much idea of mutual following or closed groups. So sure, you don't have privacy on tiktok, if you want it you can move to snapcha…

Tiktok has private messaging, and it is used by hundreds of millions of people. IMO no consumer service should have private 1:1 messaging without e2e. Either only do public messaging (ie. Like a forum), or implement e2e.

And yet virtually all consumer services with 1:1 messaging lacks e2e. This is a bit of a quixotic position to take.

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#294

Post by khalic »

jaapz wrote: post #125
eru wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents are already allowed to restrict their children access to 'dangerous' things like open computers or knives.

Parents are also allowed to restrict their children access to alcohol and cigarettes, but it seems a government ban on them buying those things works better

I’m sorry in what world is age restriction effective at keeping teens away from alcohol? Are you from the 60s?

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#295

Post by [deleted] »

broken-kebab wrote: post #186
TkTech wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which has never worked. Korea had a system to prevent kids from gaming after midnight for something like 15 years. All it did was make Korean kids very good at memorizing their parents ID.

Maybe it does work exactly as intended. It gives parents more leverage to restrict their kids gaming but many parents just don't care. And it's ok I guess, the society probably needs some flexibility in raising the next gen.

[deleted]

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#296

Post by em-bee »

hnfong wrote: post #158
TkTech wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which has never worked. Korea had a system to prevent kids from gaming after midnight for something like 15 years. All it did was make Korean kids very good at memorizing their parents ID.

In China they link the ID to a phone number (via mobile carriers) and the online services require you to authenticate using the phone (SMS etc.) Unless the kids are able to secretly access the parent's phone there's no low-effort way to work around the system. I don't know about Korea but if memorizing an ID number works, then that's just a badly designed system. I'm not sure what your argument is really, unless you'…

when i signed up for mobile service or for internet service in china (i don't remember the specifics), i was given half a dozen sim cards for use in my family. so they were all tied to my or my wife's name, but used by anyone who needed one. i believe the in-laws got at least one or two, and my kids would have gotten one, had they been old enough to have their own phone. i don't know if there was any rule that would restrict who we give those cards.

the actual users of each simcard did not have to identify themselves. so at least then it wasn't about age controls, but it obviously would allow tracing the owner eventually.

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#297

Post by prmoustache »

LoganDark wrote: post #26
ranyume wrote: post #20

This might be off-topic but on-topic about child safety... but I'm surprised people are being myopic about age verification. Age verification should be banned, but people ignore that nowadays most widely used online services already ask for your age and act accordingly: twitter, youtube, google in general, any online marketplace. They already got so much data on their users and optimize their algorithms for those gro…

Monitoring children's DMs is the responsibility of the parents, not megacorps. If a parent wants to install a keylogger or screen recorder on their child's PC, that's their decision. But Google should not be able to. Neither should... literally anyone else except maybe an employer on a work-provided device.

I also think children do/should have a right to privacy and their parents do not have to know everything.

Kids should be able to write a journal or talk to friends with total trust that this information will not reach their parents.

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#298

Post by oarsinsync »

vladms wrote: post #154
debazel wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think this would be easier to implement than many of the current ID verification methods I've seen being pushed. We already have the infrastructure for selling age restricted goods, this is nothing new. Manufacturers that are unable to restrict their hardware in a "child" mode don't have to do anything and could simply continue selling to adults only. It's obvious we're moving in a direction where we are g…

Would the parents comply though? Many of the restrictions work because most adults agree is OK. For example for alcohol, children could drink as much as they want at home, if adults would permit it. If most adults would be convinced there is an issue, one probably has enough lock-down modes even nowadays, not sure it is a "technical" problem.

> Would the parents comply though?

Consider that even with something as divisive as covid lockdowns and vaccines, the overwhelming majority of people complied with government instructions.

There are a minority of people currently refusing to vaccinate their children properly, and their fucking around is being found out with measles outbreaks in various countries.

Why would this be different? Why wouldn't it be a minority of parents permitting their children to drink, to smoke, to use unrestricted computing resources?

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#299

Post by bougainvilley »

tuxracer wrote: post #138
hexage1814 wrote: post #128

It doesn't matter. Web-based cryptography is always snake oil https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.devever.net/~hl/webc...

It's a native app what are you talking about

the specificity of between web apps that is highlighted by the article is that you receive a bundled code of software every time you open or use the app, as opposed to say, the operating system or desktop apps, which are less frequently updated. (Native) mobile apps are like web apps in that they release updates almost every day.

Re: TikTok will not introduce end-to-end encryption, saying it makes users less safe

#300

Post by 1970-01-01 »

I see it like this: Taking in the totality of the danger, they're right. If the source (social network) and the destination (child brain) cannot be treated as trustworthy, then you must control the content for overall safety. If you could trust either end, then you could dismiss the argument. But you cannot trust children to be cognizant of abuse, and you already know social media literally reinvented abusive behaviors for the 21st century. Do nothing and children will be harmed. Overreach by any amount and you have destroyed freedom. The only middle ground is weaker encrypted E2E comms. Something that creates a forcing function with very high cost (an electric bill or SaaS service) for the sniffer but can be broken with enough horsepower. Think about what millions of dollars per character would do. Good luck codifying that insane compromise into a law.
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