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Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

ziglang.org

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Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#291
post #39
post #29

For a while now I've been dual hosting my projects on both Github and Codeberg and adding a note in the README's [1] explaining the situation. I donate to Codeberg and run my own self-hosted forgejo runners for actions, and maintain much of my testing on both platforms. I push to Github and then an Action mirrors the code to Codeberg automatically. I'd fully switch over except practically everybody is on Github and n…

What do you find lacking in tooling in that regard? I don't think there is all that much friction in distributing git, it's one of the easiest tools to have multiple remotes on. The auxiliary tooling is all open source too, so not much in the way of hosting your own, or for hosted platforms offering the services. The social aspect of the hosted platforms is unlikely to ever be distributed because that is basically gi…

I think OP means multiplying n repos by m hosts and you get nXm assets out of sync , and lots of manual labor keeping track

A managed update service could work to replicate and then raise an error during conflicts . Call it “agentic” and you might get $75m

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The engineers at github are getting paid $300k/year at SWE3 to do their job. I don’t think they lost at life. Why bring people down so hard? That is really solid money and you can provide for a family, retire in your 40s, and it is work that does not destroy your body.

Spending your life working on making things worse (and knowing it) is pretty demoralizing. I know many people who have made the decision to take a pay cut or just quit when they realize that’s their job.

Sometimes those people aren't realizing that they're making things worse, they're just in a depressive spiral and can't see the other end, or see how much good is still being generated while other things are temporarily worse, or see that different tradeoffs have been made to make things worse in some ways and better in others. Just as people can delude themselves that they're always making a positive impact, people can delude themselves that they're making a negative one. The latter tends to be more costly, though, which can sure be annoying to those with a bias for a more cynical or pessimistic outlook...

Trying to ascribe positive/negative impact to strangers isn't usually a useful exercise, even if you have enough data to make a solid case. It can be cathartic -- imagine a different world where programmers making things worse would screw off and go do something else that's not programing! (I have a similar imagining, like of a world where programming is done by those who love it even outside of work -- even though I've worked with and helped hire excellent engineers who only treated programming as a job, they weren't my favorite to work with, and some were very much not excellent.) The best you can hope for is to trigger some self-reflection, and I do think that's important on an individual level. It's better to not make the world uglier, if you notice yourself doing so, and it's not just a distortion of your thinking, then you should probably stop, do something else, or figure out if it's at a level that you can compensate. A Richard Stallman quote I like:

"The straightforward and easy path was to join the proprietary software world, signing nondisclosure agreements and promising not to help my fellow hacker....I could have made money this way, and perhaps had fun programming (if I closed my eyes to how I was treating other people). But I knew that when my career was over, I would look back on years of building walls to divide people, and feel I had made the world ugly."

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#293
post #216

PSA: Codeberg currently does not implement accessible account registration. It is impossible for screen reader users to make a Codeberg account due to the image-only captcha. There's a manual fallback path, but no idea how long that takes. I've been forced to use the Wikimedia one, and that was about 3 months. This has been pointed out to them many times, and it's seemingly not something they're willing to fix. If yo…

How is accessibility a political issue?

How is it not? In the not so distant past of the 1930s there were political parties advocating for the mass killing of people with disabilities, or at least the sterilization of those with heritable disabilities. There have been real campaigns in that period that did this type of forced sterilization, especially in some mental hospitals. You'll still find people espousing such beliefs, thankfully at the fringes for now.

Accessibility is the opposite position of that - but it's by no means a universally accepted good, unfortunately, especially when it requires extra effort to implement.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not being an asshole != political correctness Surely you have your own line on what is or is not acceptable discourse. What is it?

> Surely you have your own line on what is or is not acceptable discourse. What is it? I do but I decline to share it here. I'm not going to shift this thread from what the author is doing on their website to my personal beliefs and boundaries! All I am saying is it is their project, their blog. They can be however much rude they want to be on their website. It's their website, their lines and their boundaries. Where…

> All I am saying is it is their project, their blog. They can be however much rude they want to be on their website. It's their website, their lines and their boundaries.

That's funny, because if that is true he violated his own code of conduct: https://ziglang.org/code-of-conduct/#safe-constructive-only

> I do but I decline to share it here

The point is that everyone has different lines for what they consider to be "acceptable" or not. That is exactly the reason why codes of conduct exist - it's an attempt to find a common denomiator so that it can help foster a community where people can feel included without feeling like they are being attacked or insulted.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#295
post #271
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I generally think constructive criticism is usually the right choice, I suspect Github will never get the message unless there are some very strongly worded criticisms. In Andrew's defense, he did post some constructive evidence of things he considered problematic.

A high-profile repository like Zig moving off of Github is as loud a message as one can give. Tossing in "losers" and "monkeys" only muddies the delivery.

Exactly. I have not finished reading the post. And I never will. It destroys the message and the reputation

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#296
post #95

> it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining losers eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress. > More importantly, Actions is created by monkeys This writing really does not reflect well on Zig. If you have technical issues with Github, fine: cite them. But leave ad ho…

God this entire thread is just people defending him as “a breath of fresh air” and “just using human language”. There is something in people that makes them enjoy seeing others belittled like this. A complete lack of empathy, because no one would like to be treated this way themselves, but are perfectly happy seeing others treated this way. One commenter justifies it by saying “if I’m fucking up, it’s ok to speak to…

> no one would like to be treated this way themselves

I'd like to be treated this way if I am doing really stupid things. If I am doing the kind of stupid things GitHub is doing, I'd rather someone call me out as a monkey so that I know I f-ed up.

I know calling "monkey" is not professional but my expectation of professional treatment stops at my office with my colleagues and at a few other places. I don't expect the whole world to be professional to me. I can take some bloke on the internet calling me a monkey if that helps me to introspect and make things right.

If they're nice about it and choose professional words to tell me I'm being stupid, that's great. But if they cannot and they call me "monkey", I'll take that too. I'd rather have the feedback in whatever words they can muster than not have the feedback at all.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Came here to point out that the lack of professionalism and common courtesy here is reminiscent of the dark entitled days of open source in the late 90s that had attitude of "We build free software so we can tell you to go fuck yourself.". Hope we're not headed back there.

I’ll take that vs no open source software contributors. Elitism is far from the worst character trait unpaid code janitors can be expected to have.

not the dichotomy we're actually talking about here...

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#299
I do feel that GitHub's product development has been less exciting in recent years, but that's natural for any maturing platform. While I can't judge whether there are fewer talented people involved, I've noticed they haven't increased mistakes, and the platform continues to grow. It would be unfair to overlook the hard work that goes into maintaining GitHub and shipping new features (even if some of those features aren't to everyone's taste). I'm grateful for GitHub and hope it continues to thrive. Peace.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#300
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you perhaps have preferred if they referred to it as "unprofessional" or "sloppy" instead alluding of monkeys? To me all those mean the same thing, except the latter is more flavorful and makes my eyes less likely to glaze over. > Imagine how you would feel if you were the person who wrote this code, and now you are being called a monkey in front of thousands of people on the internet. Er.. so? Why should anyon…

Not everyone is build robust enough for being called a monkey or loser straight into the person's face.

My first thought when reading the article is that the author would never attempt to call the person a monkey or loser to their face "in real life".

One of the unfortunate side effects of the internet is that it really brings out the asshole in a lot of people.

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