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Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

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Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#291

Post by flybarrel »

Gud wrote: post #280
croes wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And China doesn't (didn't?) allow foreign companies to operate in China without a local partner at all. So I don't see the irony - everyone practices protectionism, some are just more subtle about it than others. And the west always said that China is bad for doing it. That’s the irony part.

It’s not ironic. The Chinese are engaging in this behaviour, while they have had full access to western markets, arguably detrimental to the west. So now Europe are doing the same thing.

and that action is perfectly fine. But it is then hypocritic to claim one is more justified than the other

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#292

Post by xenadu02 »

roughly wrote: post #264
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody is a fan of free access and capital markets, until a foreign entity purchases something of importance. It’s a continuation of recent trends and closing markets. Nobody in their sane mind would allow a company like ASML or the likes to be purchased by competitors. But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the…

It gets a lot less contradictory when you realize the principles are window dressing for the interests. Early America had no regard for intellectual property rights because all the good media came from abroad - then we built Hollywood and saw the light. The west pushes deregulation and free trade because we've got the money and the only thing that can keep us from sucking a market dry is government intervention. The…

I think the issue is more complex than that but certainly vested interests / national interest is definitely one aspect of things.

The west and the US specifically has operated on an open market policy partly as a result of two world wars we got dragged into in relatively short order. Economic integration was thought to reduce the likelihood of another great war.

However what we have currently is a relatively developed economy (China) using currency manipulation and protective policies to prop up their own economy long after it has passed out of the "developing" phase. Plus massive and ongoing state investment and debt deferral. China effectively subsidizes massive amounts of economic activity that makes any US or EU tax breaks / protective policies look like chump change.

When you have such a large market participant behaving that way it is little wonder that people lose their faith in free markets and want to intervene. Including doing explicitly punitive things against China. It is an attitude of China's own making. After all... China will not allow you to buy a freakin' popsicle stand as a foreigner let alone a shipbuilding company or anything else.

China wants all the access to the rest of the world and wants everyone to buy their products... but they do not want to reciprocate.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#293

Post by flybarrel »

maximus_01 wrote: post #225
higginsniggins wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A free market just means that people are allowed to buy and sell what they want. If a government decides to help some industries that is irrelevant. It stops being free when government attacks economic activity, not when it promotes it.

I'm not really disagreeing with you as it's not like there is a 100% true definition of a free market, different people can have different conceptions, but the original Adam Smith / classical view is that a free market should essentially be 100% driven by the private market on supply and demand - with as little government intervention as possible on either side of the ledger (subsidy or blocking)

mmm by that definition, which market is truly free market again? I'm not sure you can find one tbh

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#294

Post by motorest »

croes wrote: post #276
like_any_other wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the whole hell would brake loose. As far as I understand, Samsung, TSMC, and SMIC are all closely guarded by their respective governments. And China doesn't (didn't?) allow foreign companies to operate in China without a local partner at all. So I don't see the irony - every…

> And China doesn't (didn't?) allow foreign companies to operate in China without a local partner at all. So I don't see the irony - everyone practices protectionism, some are just more subtle about it than others. And the west always said that China is bad for doing it. That’s the irony part.

> And the west always said that China is bad for doing it.

"The west" criticizes China because the ruling regime imposes a series of arbitrary restrictions to foreign companies, including outright banning them, while demanding that Chinese companies should have unrestricted access to foreign markets.

You are now faced with an exceptionally rare event where a member of "the west" enforces restrictions that are similar to the ones China broadly imposes on foreign companies, but does so on an isolated incident. And you call that irony.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#295

Post by croes »

Gud wrote: post #280
croes wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And China doesn't (didn't?) allow foreign companies to operate in China without a local partner at all. So I don't see the irony - everyone practices protectionism, some are just more subtle about it than others. And the west always said that China is bad for doing it. That’s the irony part.

It’s not ironic. The Chinese are engaging in this behaviour, while they have had full access to western markets, arguably detrimental to the west. So now Europe are doing the same thing.

It’s ironic. China just did it first. I can’t call something wrong and then to the same.

If, for instance, we call out China for surveillance of their citizens and then start doing the same, isn‘t that ironic?

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#296

Post by croes »

motorest wrote: post #294
croes wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And China doesn't (didn't?) allow foreign companies to operate in China without a local partner at all. So I don't see the irony - everyone practices protectionism, some are just more subtle about it than others. And the west always said that China is bad for doing it. That’s the irony part.

> And the west always said that China is bad for doing it. "The west" criticizes China because the ruling regime imposes a series of arbitrary restrictions to foreign companies, including outright banning them, while demanding that Chinese companies should have unrestricted access to foreign markets. You are now faced with an exceptionally rare event where a member of "the west" enforces restrictions that are similar…

We‘ll see how rare and isolated this is will be.

Beware of the beginnings.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#297

Post by motorest »

croes wrote: post #296
motorest wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the west always said that China is bad for doing it. "The west" criticizes China because the ruling regime imposes a series of arbitrary restrictions to foreign companies, including outright banning them, while demanding that Chinese companies should have unrestricted access to foreign markets. You are now faced with an exceptionally rare event where a member of "the west" enforces restrictions that are similar…

We‘ll see how rare and isolated this is will be. Beware of the beginnings.

> We‘ll see how rare and isolated this is will be.

Why do you presume this is bad?

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#298

Post by constantcrying »

filloooo wrote: post #255
constantcrying wrote: post #39

Great. Absolutely outstanding from the Dutch government, to not let China dominate Europe however it wants. Securing a Chip industry independent from China, Taiwan and the US has to be the top long term security interest. I only hope that the EU can use it's power to make things like this more feasible and to keep Europe independent from US/Chinese interests.

Hope you would be as excited when other countries start to follow the lead.

Of course. Securing Europes independence is extremely important, other countries should follow and seize more Chinese assets.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#299

Post by constantcrying »

bgnn wrote: post #93
constantcrying wrote: post #39

Great. Absolutely outstanding from the Dutch government, to not let China dominate Europe however it wants. Securing a Chip industry independent from China, Taiwan and the US has to be the top long term security interest. I only hope that the EU can use it's power to make things like this more feasible and to keep Europe independent from US/Chinese interests.

The same government forced NXP to sell its RF power division to Chinese JAC in 2015 due to NXP and Freescale merger. Isn't that great?

Firstly, that wasn't "the same government". Secondly, better course correct now than never.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#300

Post by oblio »

itopaloglu83 wrote: post #217
dgfitz wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like… China?

The coke recipe has never been patented, afaik, and similarly certain high-end things were patented only because the main company was hiring a subcontractor to do something. For example, Samsung flat out copied iPhone exactly almost. So, my thinking is that there could be less patents, because they’re less likely to share the technology and patents might let others copy stuff.

> For example, Samsung flat out copied iPhone exactly almost.

Which iPhone?

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