Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided • Hacker News Board

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#291

Post by isaacremuant » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 8:39 AM UTC

Because politicians are not accountable to you and are paid for by lobbyists.

This is not a conspiracy theory. This is not a UK/US only problem. The EU nanny statism isn't a good thing nor is the loss of sovereignty associated with it.

But hey, the left right binary choice strawman made it so that people basically pushed for more gov power no matter what and now it's too late to stop the inertia.

The next time you need to vote against accumulation of power they'll scare you again with extremists, terrorists, drug dealers, children safety, disinformation (which is basically calling for suppression of freespeech and criminalization of wrongthink), etc.

If you're still labeling people as "disinformation spreaders" that are dangerous then you can't complain.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#292

Post by isaacremuant » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 8:42 AM UTC

ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #70

nickslaughter02 wrote: post #3

Leaked record of a meeting on 11/07/2025: Original: https://netzpolitik.org/2025/internes-protokoll-eu-juristen-... Translated to English: https://netzpolitik-org.translate.goog/2025/internes-protoko...

I am Danish and I fucking hate my government for this. Nationally, the minister of justice Peter Hummelgaard is also pushing for a law which gives the police intelligence agency (PET) the right to basically do mass surveillance of everyone without prior suspicion of any criminal activity. If passed, they will be allowed to build a database of everyone which correlates social media activity with health care data and a…

Funnily enough. Those in power will commit crimes and get away with it because the same police won't point their surveillance to their bosses or influential people, because it would negatively affect their careers.

Judges will be lenient and prosecutors find ways to give them, if at all community service and an inconsequential fine for the gravest of crimes.

But hey, we absolutely need 1984 like surveillance. A cam in every home, if it's up to these schmucks.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#293

Post by thephyber » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 8:43 AM UTC

afarah1 wrote: post #50

McDyver wrote: post #30

They make it really difficult to fight any of this. You have to, individually - find a representative, their contact info, state your case, hope it's the correct person, hope your mail doesn't go unnoticed, hope that it will be properly read, hope it changes their mind. This is "lobbying" by the people in a disorganised way, trying to fight organised lobbying. This is a barrier that puts lots of people off, even if t…

Same for any legislation piece. A law that costs 100M people $1 and benefits 100 people with $1M. Would be, as you noted, costly to oppose, not worth the $1 nor the time. And at the same time, very profitable for the 100 to spend hundreds of thousands and great effort lobbying for. It's just the power structure of any representative legislature. "In vain do we fly to the many"...

“Concentrated benefits and diffuse costs”.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#294

Post by zx8080 » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 8:44 AM UTC

McDyver wrote: post #30

They make it really difficult to fight any of this. You have to, individually - find a representative, their contact info, state your case, hope it's the correct person, hope your mail doesn't go unnoticed, hope that it will be properly read, hope it changes their mind. This is "lobbying" by the people in a disorganised way, trying to fight organised lobbying. This is a barrier that puts lots of people off, even if t…

> This is "lobbying" by the people in a disorganised way, trying to fight organised lobbying.

That's gighting against an organized crime syndicate. It requires coordination, resources and aim.

1984 is coming in its worst scenarious.

There will be no win for the people, no hope. Freedom is gone.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#295

Post by johnisgood » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 9:02 AM UTC

the-smug-one wrote: post #231

rogerrogerr wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s pretty dang simple today. If you’re a usual W-2 employee, anyone who can read and follow simple instructions can file without paying any preparer a dime. For those of us trying to collect all the weird tax situations: https://freetaxusa.com .

In Sweden and Denmark the tax service prepares a tax statement for you. In Sweden, if everything looks OK, you press a button. In Denmark, if everything looks OK, you don't even have to press a button.

I assume it is the same in Hungary, it definitely was the case a few years back, so I assume the same system is in place. It might not be rolled out for everyone, however. Probably not for companies, or in complex cases.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#296

Post by verisimi » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 9:03 AM UTC

McDyver wrote: post #30

They make it really difficult to fight any of this. You have to, individually - find a representative, their contact info, state your case, hope it's the correct person, hope your mail doesn't go unnoticed, hope that it will be properly read, hope it changes their mind. This is "lobbying" by the people in a disorganised way, trying to fight organised lobbying. This is a barrier that puts lots of people off, even if t…

There is no way to resolve these problems. Every answer involves capitulation to governments with loss of personal freedoms.

One has to admit the system is fundamentally broken. Once this is accepted, and people stop investing themselves further in the political system, then we will see change.

Sadly, the change is already planned for and will likely be a jump to some sort of communistic, ai-managed technocracy. However, it is also an opportunity to make the point that force should be no part of a future system. People should be able to opt-in or opt-out. That's freedom.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#297

Post by zelphirkalt » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 9:12 AM UTC

isaacremuant wrote: post #292

ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Danish and I fucking hate my government for this. Nationally, the minister of justice Peter Hummelgaard is also pushing for a law which gives the police intelligence agency (PET) the right to basically do mass surveillance of everyone without prior suspicion of any criminal activity. If passed, they will be allowed to build a database of everyone which correlates social media activity with health care data and a…

Funnily enough. Those in power will commit crimes and get away with it because the same police won't point their surveillance to their bosses or influential people, because it would negatively affect their careers. Judges will be lenient and prosecutors find ways to give them, if at all community service and an inconsequential fine for the gravest of crimes. But hey, we absolutely need 1984 like surveillance. A cam i…

It is pretty damning, that this lower sentencing for the rich or powerful happens over and over again all around the world. Usually one would expect judges to do their job, but it seems at a certain level many of them lose their ability to make everyone equal before the law.

Maybe what we need are machines to calculate sentences. I am intentionally not saying AI. I mean stupid simple machines, where you input raw facts and each wrongdoing has a coefficient assigned to it, that modifies the sentence. Someone embezzled so and so much money? OK money times factor. Someone didn't reveal their side income as a politician? OK plus coefficient so and so. Just really dumb machines or programs that add up and their result is the sentence, period. No wriggling, no bs, no nothing.

But I guess that would just move the problem to "Who inputs the crimes into the machines?" and then they would cheat their way out of trouble there. It's all so maddening.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#298

Post by poszlem » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 9:23 AM UTC

Gud wrote: post #278

augment_me wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What can a decentralized, democratic government do against foreign autocratic powers that can influence any election in WEEKS? A part of the problem today is that there are massive autocratic powers that have the resources, means and channels to influence any democratic powers. Decentralization in this case means less unity in opinion, and more opportunity for foreign influence. I dont see a way out of this, because…

It’s how the country I live in, Switzerland, is organised, one of the most prosperous places on earth. https://freedomhouse.org/country/switzerland

Could Switzerland's prosperity instead be linked to its historical role in safeguarding gold taken from Jewish victims during World War II, its tradition of banking secrecy that enabled dictators like Ferdinand Marcos, Mobutu Sese Seko, and Sani Abacha to conceal their assets, or its longstanding willingness to accept money from oligarchs avoiding sanctions, tax evaders, arms dealers, corrupt officials, drug traffickers, and fraudsters?

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#299

Post by arghwhat » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 9:29 AM UTC

the-smug-one wrote: post #231

rogerrogerr wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s pretty dang simple today. If you’re a usual W-2 employee, anyone who can read and follow simple instructions can file without paying any preparer a dime. For those of us trying to collect all the weird tax situations: https://freetaxusa.com .

In Sweden and Denmark the tax service prepares a tax statement for you. In Sweden, if everything looks OK, you press a button. In Denmark, if everything looks OK, you don't even have to press a button.

But note that for Denmark, it's only correct by default in simple employment cases without notable investment, retirement, transport/house/mortgage related deductibles, etc.

And it's not at all simple once you have to actually check or change details. It's so complicated that the online UI will only show you a fraction of the available fields by default, and they often reset year-by-year, or get weird values. And then there's the whole real estate taxation scandal...

And more importantly than fixing the statement, you have to actually understand the whole taxation situation to make financial decisions throughout the year. How a mortgage partially interacts with capital gains taxation, dividend and income interact with progressive taxation, how your different investments are spread across a number of different taxation types and intervals, how your spouse's tax situation affects yours, etc. etc.

If you don't pay attention to that, you'll end up missing out on the deductibles the politicians promised you but intentionally handicapped to death by making it yet another obscure tax exception stacking on top of the rest. >:(

I'd gladly pay a bit more tax if I could just get it to be ONE flippin' rate.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#300

Post by spurgu » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 9:36 AM UTC

Gud wrote: post #192

zo1 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a great idea. I for one want to enable our governments to track down criminals and punish them for it. If they're not doing everything they can do so in this technological and digital age, then they are breaking their part of that pesky "social contract" I am being upheld to. And to people like you that oppose this and propose even more authoritarian laws that prevent me as a citizen from protecting my…

Do you see any drawbacks with giving our authorities total information about you me and everybody else? Perhaps potential for misuse? Because as I understand the world, the people who hold the most power are generally not the best people.

Indeed. The more powerful tools there are available, the worse kind of people get drawn to them. And the more it corrupts those with initially good intentions.

People seem to be longing for a God of sorts in their aspirations towards authoritarian governments (naively believing that those with the power will be (and remain) benevolent and act in their best interests and with fairness).