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Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

digitalcourage.social

41–50 of 377 posts

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#41
post #27

I really don't get it. It's against the German constitution and yet there are still politicians pushing for that, again and again. We should make it mandatory that when something is clearly against the constitution you loose your job as a politician. It won't work anyway. It's the same spiel wasting so much money and time. Do we know which lobby group/party is pushing for that yet again?

Is it clearly against the constitution? What happens when the constitution clashes with EU law? Can the constitution be amended and is it likely if there is a clash with EU law on this issue? Enormous pressure can be brought to bear in politicians over something like this. The most prominent British politician to oppose the Online Safety Act in the UK is being labelled as "helping people like Jimmy Saville" by the go…

It is against it and the law was revoked twice already by liberal politician SLS: 2nd March 2010 - 1 BvR 256/08 I don't like this rhetorical style were easy to prove facts are denounced with questions to evoke uncertainty.

If you now say this is not applicable as this is about storing connection data you don't understand the issue in full: This is a deeper incision than just storing connection logs. This violates a more fundamental right. We are talking about chats here. Not what IPs you connected to at what time (and that law was canned as violating the entire constitution, which i cited with the state's decision above). There is no middleground here.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#43
post #19

Entire world seems to be making a pivot to surveillance state :(

China has shown the world the way and most countries likes it.

lmao, like every other major power has been a bastion of free speech until China came up. McCarthyism, what? Politkovskaya, who?

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#44
post #41
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it clearly against the constitution? What happens when the constitution clashes with EU law? Can the constitution be amended and is it likely if there is a clash with EU law on this issue? Enormous pressure can be brought to bear in politicians over something like this. The most prominent British politician to oppose the Online Safety Act in the UK is being labelled as "helping people like Jimmy Saville" by the go…

It is against it and the law was revoked twice already by liberal politician SLS: 2nd March 2010 - 1 BvR 256/08 I don't like this rhetorical style were easy to prove facts are denounced with questions to evoke uncertainty. If you now say this is not applicable as this is about storing connection data you don't understand the issue in full: This is a deeper incision than just storing connection logs. This violates a m…

No, I am not arguing anything, I was just asking.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#45
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's against the German constitution No one cares. Like anywhere in the world.

Just saying "It's unconstitutional" doesn't really cut it. It's a question for the courts to decide (based on the constitution).

A constitution is the basic big-picture law of the country. The court’s interpretation should be easy to guess. Otherwise, the people won’t feel like it is their document.

Rule of law is aided by laws that people know how to follow.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has shown the world the way and most countries likes it.

No, people don't like this.

Most ordinary people don't but they still vote for authoritarian politicians who like it.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#48

I really don't get it. It's against the German constitution and yet there are still politicians pushing for that, again and again. We should make it mandatory that when something is clearly against the constitution you loose your job as a politician. It won't work anyway. It's the same spiel wasting so much money and time. Do we know which lobby group/party is pushing for that yet again?

A constitution is just a piece of paper. The ruling class can discard it as they wish.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#49
post #30

They make it really difficult to fight any of this. You have to, individually - find a representative, their contact info, state your case, hope it's the correct person, hope your mail doesn't go unnoticed, hope that it will be properly read, hope it changes their mind. This is "lobbying" by the people in a disorganised way, trying to fight organised lobbying. This is a barrier that puts lots of people off, even if t…

One of the failings of most modern democracies is that if a measure doesn't pass, nothing prohibits it from being introduced again immediately. I've seen ballot initiatives simply get copy pasted onto each election by city council until they happen to pass.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#50
post #30

They make it really difficult to fight any of this. You have to, individually - find a representative, their contact info, state your case, hope it's the correct person, hope your mail doesn't go unnoticed, hope that it will be properly read, hope it changes their mind. This is "lobbying" by the people in a disorganised way, trying to fight organised lobbying. This is a barrier that puts lots of people off, even if t…

Same for any legislation piece.

A law that costs 100M people $1 and benefits 100 people with $1M.

Would be, as you noted, costly to oppose, not worth the $1 nor the time.

And at the same time, very profitable for the 100 to spend hundreds of thousands and great effort lobbying for.

It's just the power structure of any representative legislature.

"In vain do we fly to the many"...

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