Buy European Made. Support European Values • Hacker News Board

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#291

Post by re-thc » Mon, Mar 10, 2025, 1:10 PM UTC

ajuc wrote: post #289

re-thc wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because they wanted them to be true This assumes they even know what the truth is. We have discovered that a lot of people don't know how tariffs work for example.

They know enough to understand which way should their ignorance be pointed to support their worldview. I've seen this countless times, I'm from eastern Poland, we had our own MAGA ruling for 8 years, and eastern Poland is where most of their voters come from. When it benefits these people - they understand enough to know what the mainstream opinion is and they don't oppose it. When it does not support their worldview…

> They know enough to understand which way should their ignorance be pointed to support their worldview.

Again, you assume or are you god? Did you mind read everyone? Otherwise there's no way to really tell. Are the votes public? What people say might not be what they vote for.

> I've seen this countless times

As in you've looked at everyone in existence?

> Ignorance is not the root cause. It's a protection mechanism.

Again how do you draw this conclusion that 100% or at least >70% are like this. It's like you decide for them. So even if they're ignorant you're going to rule otherwise.

> It's fascinating to watch at first

This is worse than stereotyping. What's fascinating is listening to your reply.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#292

Post by ajuc » Mon, Mar 10, 2025, 5:59 PM UTC

re-thc wrote: post #291

ajuc wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They know enough to understand which way should their ignorance be pointed to support their worldview. I've seen this countless times, I'm from eastern Poland, we had our own MAGA ruling for 8 years, and eastern Poland is where most of their voters come from. When it benefits these people - they understand enough to know what the mainstream opinion is and they don't oppose it. When it does not support their worldview…

> They know enough to understand which way should their ignorance be pointed to support their worldview. Again, you assume or are you god? Did you mind read everyone? Otherwise there's no way to really tell. Are the votes public? What people say might not be what they vote for. > I've seen this countless times As in you've looked at everyone in existence? > Ignorance is not the root cause. It's a protection mechanism…

The discussion started with

> That's not what people voted for (agreeing with the government)

I could play your game (asking at every point how do you know). And we will get to the point that we both agree it's just our interpretations of facts.

Now that we established that - can we return to a regular discussion?

I live among such people. They are my family and my neighbors. We talk about this. My uncle has a company distributing pig feed. He's doing it for 20 years. He pays taxes. When our Polish MAGA introduced a tax reform that they reverted next month (becuse it was self-contradictory) - he defended them and argued his taxes will be lower when it was mathematically false.

He's not stupid. He have choosen no to understand something he's good at - because he wanted to preserve his political beliefs.

My father is a teacher. He argued previous government "never raised teachers' salaries" and that his beloved MAGA government did. In reality (and I know that because my wife also was a teacher at the time) - it was the other way around. I've googled the data on the official government website. He did not changed his mind.

These are 2 examples out of dozens.

It's like talking with flat-earthers. It's not that they never encountered anybody to teach them science. They did, and they actively choose to ignore it. In fact they have to know the mainstream position at least well enough to know what not to believe.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#293

Post by re-thc » Mon, Mar 10, 2025, 11:18 PM UTC

ajuc wrote: post #292

re-thc wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They know enough to understand which way should their ignorance be pointed to support their worldview. Again, you assume or are you god? Did you mind read everyone? Otherwise there's no way to really tell. Are the votes public? What people say might not be what they vote for. > I've seen this countless times As in you've looked at everyone in existence? > Ignorance is not the root cause. It's a protection mechanism…

The discussion started with > That's not what people voted for (agreeing with the government) I could play your game (asking at every point how do you know). And we will get to the point that we both agree it's just our interpretations of facts. Now that we established that - can we return to a regular discussion? I live among such people. They are my family and my neighbors. We talk about this. My uncle has a compan…

> And we will get to the point that we both agree it's just our interpretations of facts.

You're trying to prove something with a much higher requirement than mine. Where are the facts to begin with?

I'm saying it's "not" what they voted for, the equivalent of trying to prove "not guilty". So as long as there are suspicions that's easily done.

What you're trying to prove is that everyone is "guilty", which is a lot harder, e.g. you'd need a high majority in court.

> I live among such people. > These are 2 examples out of dozens.

i.e. your reply is you live potentially in a bubble that might not even be statistically enough to prove any point and because of that you've concluded.

So if my friends at school all buy the same game, somewhere this game is popular in my country or even the world? For all I know it could only be my school or my state. E.g. many US states swing differently.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#294

Post by FirmwareBurner » Thu, Mar 13, 2025, 5:37 PM UTC

amarcheschi wrote: post #275

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not arguing in good faith using logic , proof and reason, you're deflecting my questions using optics and biases, so i will end the conversation here.

Reason is when Russian puppets get elected due to external interference

Where's the proof they were Russian puppets?

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#295

Post by DHolzer » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 12:28 PM UTC

soderfoo wrote: post #267

DHolzer wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see this as an attack, but rather a push for independence from the US. I don't want America to be irrelevant, but i don't feel like I can trust them as much as I did before. Both private and in business.

Why would anyone put so much trust in to the US in the past? I'm American, an army vet, and proud. Yet, I fail to identify anything other than the US acting in their own self interest since WW2. The list is long, but to name a few, Vietnam, War on terror, mass surveillance network, etc... People are waxing poetic about an America that never was.

Sure, I really do agree and I didn't mean to romanticize the past. However, there was a time when the self-interests of the EU and the US overlapped much more than they do now. From your point of view, it might seem like nothing has changed dramatically, but from our perspective, it certainly has.

I've noticed this shift both in my professional life and personally. And I'm not talking about just eating up what the media spews in my face, but actual cold, hard and direct consequences I've had to deal with since Trump came into office.