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Buy European Made. Support European Values

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Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#271

Post by johngladtj »

rapnie wrote: post #145
c03 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great point where nationality does not reflect political values. Many Americans exist that do not carry the opinion of their government, as do many Russians. If a global set of "Don't be an asshole" values could be defined, put into words, shared and progressed, it would have much greater value to a consumer and the world than merely going back to nationalism and protectionism.

But it is not nationalism as the set of common shared values aren't bound to nations. And neither is it protectionism in the traditional meaning of the term. If you don't participate in upholding the value system (or worse actively seeks to destroy it) then you don't get to reap the benefits. I read this "buy European" initiative as a "don't buy American" in light of the current political situation. Withholding trade…

That's called pan nationalism a superset of nationalism

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#272

Post by johngladtj »

amarcheschi wrote: post #105
johngladtj wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Promoting peace and democracy? By arresting politicians opposed to them and funding and supporting wars?

I guess you're referring to the Romanian candidate which was found to have millions of euros and tickets to Russia. Yes, protecting democracy and peace also includes punishing those who put at risk the existence of peace and democracy. For the war part, it kinda tickles your butt having a war on your neighbor's garden, I see nothing wrong with supporting such a war (on Ukraine side's, of course)

Yes of course. After all what could be more undemocratic than, let me check, "voting to change your countries foreign policy"

Pro-tip: if your democracy doesn't support changing course on foreign policy engagements, you're not a democracy

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#273

Post by FirmwareBurner »

amarcheschi wrote: post #266
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I guess you're referring to the Romanian candidate which was found to have millions of euros and tickets to Russia. You mean just like politicians from Austria and Germany who were Putin's lobbying arm in Europe, then took jobs at Russian oil and gas companies when their political careers ended? Why didn't they get arrested too? >Yes, protecting democracy and peace also includes punishing those who put at risk the e…

I would be fine with having corrupt politicians arrested in Germany, too, if they were found guilty of corruption, I do not see why they should be exempt I do not believe for an instant than the roman salute making roman candidate isn't a Russian asset, given his salute shows support for other Russian friendly politicians currently sitting at the white house. Regarding the war, AFAIK Ukrainians would rather be in the…

You're not arguing in good faith using logic , proof and reason, you're deflecting my questions using optics and biases, so i will end the conversation here.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#274

Post by amarcheschi »

johngladtj wrote: post #272
amarcheschi wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you're referring to the Romanian candidate which was found to have millions of euros and tickets to Russia. Yes, protecting democracy and peace also includes punishing those who put at risk the existence of peace and democracy. For the war part, it kinda tickles your butt having a war on your neighbor's garden, I see nothing wrong with supporting such a war (on Ukraine side's, of course)

Yes of course. After all what could be more undemocratic than, let me check, "voting to change your countries foreign policy" Pro-tip: if your democracy doesn't support changing course on foreign policy engagements, you're not a democracy

There's a stark difference between voting to change your countries foreign policy and an enemy state interference in the affairs in the country.

The Romanian candidate said he had spent nothing for the campaign, but that is not true given the recent developments, and these donations were part of the decision to abort the election results

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/12/04/declassified-r...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accusations_of_Russian_inter...

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#275

Post by amarcheschi »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #273
amarcheschi wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be fine with having corrupt politicians arrested in Germany, too, if they were found guilty of corruption, I do not see why they should be exempt I do not believe for an instant than the roman salute making roman candidate isn't a Russian asset, given his salute shows support for other Russian friendly politicians currently sitting at the white house. Regarding the war, AFAIK Ukrainians would rather be in the…

You're not arguing in good faith using logic , proof and reason, you're deflecting my questions using optics and biases, so i will end the conversation here.

Reason is when Russian puppets get elected due to external interference

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#276

Post by pastage »

ssssvd wrote: post #147
pastage wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed Europe has never had to care about that because we have always supported the US. Now there is always Loongson/Zhaoxin to base your infra on. Considering the way the US is heading you might see people considering a "neutral party" in the war. AWS is nice and all not unique though.

You absolutely could go bare-metal with emerging local platforms and a Chinese stack — that’s the path Russia (and obviously China itself) is heading down. But... Equinix? US. Digital Realty? US. NTT? Japan. Interxion? US. CyrusOne? US. That’s your top five DC/colo operators in Europe. Same story with Tier-1 and Tier-1.5 ISPs. It’s not just software. It’s not even just hardware. It’s the whole stack — down to power g…

I do not think completely entangled is a problem, it is just that there will be actual reasons to look for alternatives how ever bad they are. Considering that the EU is under fire from the current president of the US it is going to affect how people think in the EU.

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#277

Post by rsynnott »

Aloisius wrote: post #262
rsynnott wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no 'conventional'/old-fashioned monarchies in Europe (except, arguably, for Liechtenstein). Some European countries have monarchs, who are powerless figureheads; executive power rests with the government (even in most European republics, executive power rests with the government, not the president).

Not really powerless. They have powers, but people see them as ceremonial. They're not of course ceremonial, rather it's traditional that they don't fire the loaded gun they're given and everyone pretends like they're not only incapable of it, but doing so would end the monarchy. The truth is, a monarch with significant ambition could, if the right situation arises or is engineered, convince the populace that their e…

> They're not of course ceremonial, rather it's traditional that they don't fire the loaded gun they're given and everyone pretends like they're not only incapable of it, but doing so would end the monarchy.

I mean, traditionally, doing so is bad for his majesty's health; see Charles II in particular, but also to a large extent Edward VIII (the divorcee thing was a handy excuse, but a big part of the reason that the government was so keen to fire him was that he was seen as high-risk for misbehaviour).

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#278

Post by rhubinak »

sras-me wrote: post #206
lpcvoid wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a donation towards the greater good of Europe, so up to a certain amount I am absolutely for it. I have no say in taxation in the first place (well, indirectly through voting, but you know what I mean). 60% is excessive though, and would make it impossible for people to pay bills. That's detrimental for the future of Europe :)

Ok, now let us also take into account that as this conflict continue, the chance of a nuclear escalation goes up, day by day. Would you still support to fund this and make this conflict go on and on, possibly until someone becomes so desperate that they do something stupid?

Yes, I would stand up to a bully. Would you?

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#279

Post by sras-me »

rhubinak wrote: post #278
sras-me wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, now let us also take into account that as this conflict continue, the chance of a nuclear escalation goes up, day by day. Would you still support to fund this and make this conflict go on and on, possibly until someone becomes so desperate that they do something stupid?

Yes, I would stand up to a bully. Would you?

Here is some "Russian misinformation" for you. Please watch it and come back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOkl2XgZlw0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzgPJeYZaOU

Re: Buy European Made. Support European Values

#280

Post by rhubinak »

sras-me wrote: post #279
rhubinak wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I would stand up to a bully. Would you?

Here is some "Russian misinformation" for you. Please watch it and come back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOkl2XgZlw0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzgPJeYZaOU

Lemme reuse the same response I give to my antivaxxer and climate change denier friend: If only you would have spent the time watching those videos doing something useful world would be a nicer place.
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