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Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

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Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#291

Post by emj »

stcredzero wrote: post #286
Spivak wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what sympathy strikes are, if you're a unionized commercial bakery who delivers to a unionized restaurant that's currently striking you don't go and strike against your own boss. That's silly. You refuse to cross the picket line and deliver goods and services to the business who's striking so they have a harder time operating. That's like the entire point. They're so effective lots of places ban them which li…

They're so effective lots of places ban them which like... take that for what it's worth. In this case, they are violating consensuality. The Tesla workers don't want the collective agreement. The sympathy strikers are outsiders to the Tesla employee pool who are imposing the collective agreement on them. Given this incident, I can understand why these are banned. It seems to have more to do with a political power pl…

Well it is an ideological battle by a US company acting in an work environment very much unlike what the US has. I do hope the unions manage to keep this going for a year or two.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#292

Post by adolph »

tuukkah wrote: post #290
stcredzero wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're so effective lots of places ban them which like... take that for what it's worth. In this case, they are violating consensuality. The Tesla workers don't want the collective agreement. The sympathy strikers are outsiders to the Tesla employee pool who are imposing the collective agreement on them. Given this incident, I can understand why these are banned. It seems to have more to do with a political power pl…

At least some Tesla workers do want the collective agreement (without it, they have little protection against the whims of Elon).

live by the whim, die by the whim

maybe should follow their own whim

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#293

Post by orwin »

labcomputer wrote: post #264
orwin wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he does that, he will have to do the same with norway, and probably Denmark too. Also, Tesla will have to open-source his hardware, because it will have to respect warranties, and without transport/local Tesla shops, the only alternative will be conventional car shop, which right now cannot really serve Teslas, at least in France.

> Also, Tesla will have to open-source his hardware, because it will have to respect warranties, and without transport/local Tesla shops, the only alternative will be conventional car shop, which right now cannot really serve Teslas, at least in France. If force majeure is a valid reason to not receive mail, how is it not a valid reason to ignore warranties? Sauce for the goose and gander and all that.

Sorry, the situation is complex and I should have been more clear. As long as Tesla tries to operate normally in Sweden despite the strike, it probably won't be an issue (might go to court but it will win). If Tesla leave Sweden however, and the strike stops, Tesla might have to open source its hardware for local mechanics.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#294

Post by tuukkah »

stcredzero wrote: post #287
einr wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Force majeure trumps all obligations. There is no law being broken here.

Force majeure trumps all obligations. Making unions a "Force majeure" basically gives them the ability to smite as if they were gods. European states have recently developed this annoying habit of "protecting" the rights of citizens, but then leaving loopholes that render the protections null and void. By recently, I mean since the early 20th century. The Weimar Republic is the poster child of that.

Companies are not citizens.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#295

Post by emj »

mxsjoberg wrote: post #281
skitout wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure you know what democracy is... Democracy is not just voting for your MP, it includes unions, strikes and collective agreement If Tesla agreed (like 99,9999% of companies) with the democratically designed collective agreement, there would be no targeted strike. Strikes are one of the main democratic bargaining tool employees and unions have... including on key point of businesses.

> democratically designed collective agreement there is no such thing

Lots of people work together and vote in their local unions, that then is taken into account when the the terms of a collective agreement is negotiated. That seems like the definition of democracy.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#296

Post by samcal »

susano wrote: post #174

Not overly knowledgeable on Swedish law, but the idea that a public sector union can decide to block public services (in this case postal delivery of license plates) for a single company as a sympathy strike seems pretty nuts to me. Pretty sure Sweden would lose in European court at least (of course it would probably take a long time to percolate there).

This is just how labor unions roll in the Nordic countries. McDonalds learned this in Denmark [1]. The sooner Tesla realizes they need to negotiate labor contracts through the unions to operate in Sweden, the more money they can make.

[1]: https://mattbruenig.com/2021/09/20/when-mcdonalds-came-to-de...

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#297

Post by thaumasiotes »

jltsiren wrote: post #188
susano wrote: post #174

Not overly knowledgeable on Swedish law, but the idea that a public sector union can decide to block public services (in this case postal delivery of license plates) for a single company as a sympathy strike seems pretty nuts to me. Pretty sure Sweden would lose in European court at least (of course it would probably take a long time to percolate there).

PostNord is a private business owned by Sweden and Denmark. Unless there are specific laws to the contrary, its employees have the same right to strike as any other private sector employees. (More generally, postal services in the EU tend to be structured as businesses these days, because they are in direct competition with various courier and package delivery services.) Also, while the employees may be on strike, ma…

> PostNord is a private business owned by Sweden and Denmark.

That would be a public business?

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#298

Post by user_named »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #212
jltsiren wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PostNord is a private business owned by Sweden and Denmark. Unless there are specific laws to the contrary, its employees have the same right to strike as any other private sector employees. (More generally, postal services in the EU tend to be structured as businesses these days, because they are in direct competition with various courier and package delivery services.) Also, while the employees may be on strike, ma…

Refusing to distribute mail to a specific recipient does not sound like a 'strike' in the sense of labour dispute to me. In France (often used a reference when it comes to striking...) that wouldn't be a legal strike, but obviously every jurisdiction is different. In any case, this also probably breaches EU law related to universal postal service, which states that mail must be delivered to every address 5 days a wee…

There is no such EU law. Post is not delivered 5 days a week in Sweden.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#299

Post by user_named »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #297
jltsiren wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PostNord is a private business owned by Sweden and Denmark. Unless there are specific laws to the contrary, its employees have the same right to strike as any other private sector employees. (More generally, postal services in the EU tend to be structured as businesses these days, because they are in direct competition with various courier and package delivery services.) Also, while the employees may be on strike, ma…

> PostNord is a private business owned by Sweden and Denmark. That would be a public business?

It's not publicly listed. It's private.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#300

Post by tuukkah »

labcomputer wrote: post #264
orwin wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he does that, he will have to do the same with norway, and probably Denmark too. Also, Tesla will have to open-source his hardware, because it will have to respect warranties, and without transport/local Tesla shops, the only alternative will be conventional car shop, which right now cannot really serve Teslas, at least in France.

> Also, Tesla will have to open-source his hardware, because it will have to respect warranties, and without transport/local Tesla shops, the only alternative will be conventional car shop, which right now cannot really serve Teslas, at least in France. If force majeure is a valid reason to not receive mail, how is it not a valid reason to ignore warranties? Sauce for the goose and gander and all that.

Consumer protections.
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