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Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

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Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#291

Post by tambourine_man »

pyre wrote: post #258
tambourine_man wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, our adult society is pretty good at accepting behavioral outliers Boy, do we disagree. Never before has political correctness and "fitting in" been so exalted. In fact Facebook is a direct consequence of this behavior. Consider that many people don't see Facebook as a privacy issue once they've weighed everything carefully and not because they're idiots. Not idiots, but completely ignorant as to what they are a…

> Facebook is a direct consequence of this behavior The only reason that people join Facebook is to prove how politically correct they are, or to 'fit in?' Really?

Not the only reason. But how often do you see a profile showing something other than successful people having a good time? It's self promotion all over.

Just like anonymity lends itself to trolling, personality cult lead to idealized public images.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#292

Post by neilk »

tambourine_man wrote: post #291
pyre wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook is a direct consequence of this behavior The only reason that people join Facebook is to prove how politically correct they are, or to 'fit in?' Really?

Not the only reason. But how often do you see a profile showing something other than successful people having a good time? It's self promotion all over. Just like anonymity lends itself to trolling, personality cult lead to idealized public images.

You remind me of how the teaser trailer for The Social Network is a sequence of happy Facebook photos set to Radiohead's Creep.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#293

Post by fudged »

amirmc wrote: post #268
fl3tch wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your friends can volunteer information about you indirectly by using "smart lists" I didn't even know about this, but it illustrates that merely signing up exposes you to potential privacy violations. We recently became aware of how much of a liability it is for employers to look at Facebook profiles, because they may learn intimate details about a person's sexual orientation, religion, politics, etc. The only solu…

Didn't Facebook also keep 'shadow profiles' of people not on the platform? So even if you're not signed up but your friends have tagged photos of you etc, Facebook can still infer things about you. Not sure if this is still the case.

They also collected the browsing history of non-users. Freaky stuff.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#294

Post by joering2 »

feralchimp wrote: post #226
joering2 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> connect in a deep and healthy way with some people that I'd fallen out of touch with You must have had fallen out of touch for a reason, hadn't you? I think this is the major reason why I am not using Facebook to find and connect with my old friends. If those connection would have been worth keeping up with, I am sure I wouldn't have lost them at the first place. Now, of course there are stories when some family me…

This might be one of the rare cases where "you'll understand when you're older" is the most elegant and truthful response available. But I'll understand if that's not very satisfying, so... Interpersonal connections just do not exist in some sort of static and immutable categorical hierarchy, wherein all those that share in the Platonic ideal of WORTH KEEPING are definitely kept above some threshold of positive healt…

> "you'll understand when you're older"

In order to know this you had to be young and "get older". Social networks are only 10 years old, approx.

What social network did you use 25 years ago?

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#295

Post by feralchimp »

joering2 wrote: post #294
feralchimp wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be one of the rare cases where "you'll understand when you're older" is the most elegant and truthful response available. But I'll understand if that's not very satisfying, so... Interpersonal connections just do not exist in some sort of static and immutable categorical hierarchy, wherein all those that share in the Platonic ideal of WORTH KEEPING are definitely kept above some threshold of positive healt…

> "you'll understand when you're older" In order to know this you had to be young and "get older". Social networks are only 10 years old, approx. What social network did you use 25 years ago?

Social network != internet-connected social network. My statements are more about people (and the experience of living among them) than they are about Facebook or any other internet site. Graph visibility / searchability has increased, bandwidth has increased, latency has decreased. But the rules of human interaction and gaining perspective on the human condition have more or less (I suspect, not really my field) stayed relatively consistent since the days of parchment and ship transit.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#296

Post by niels_olson »

VMG wrote: post #265
niels_olson wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people just like camp And that, my friend, is the tyranny of the majority. It is the people who just like things the way they are who opt willfully to take the side of the-way-is. You attacked, wrote a comment, preserving the status quo simply because you happen to find yourself with that preference, rather than considering the much more existential plight of the minority.

Out there, somebody just doesn't like the internet, and you are making him sad by participating.

My point was that your comment illustrates how the tyranny of the majority works. Most people in any majority simply have that position coincidentally, but when faced with the possibility of movement, are willing to attack ferociously out of the underlying instinct to stand your ground. The idea of walking a mile in the minority's shoes never even in makes into their thought process, let alone do they actually walk that mile.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#297

Post by kelnos »

sanderjd wrote: post #282
kelnos wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then that's your own fault. I check my privacy settings every couple months, or when I hear about or see large changes to the interface or offering getting rolled out. I've been on Facebook since April 2004, only a few months after they launched, so clearly I haven't eventually given up. Using the "View As" feature and looking at your profile page while logged out is a good idea too. If you care about your privacy an…

> Then that's your own fault. I check my privacy settings every couple months It's grandparent's fault for not being enslaved to FB's pain-in-the-ass purposefully exploitative system the way you are? No, it is FB's fault for being a purposefully exploitative pain-in-the-ass.

It's been well-known for several years now that FB's privacy settings (and the arbitrary changes to how they work) is a pain in the ass. If you haven't noticed this by now, that's your fault. If you have noticed this, still want to maintain a FB account despite it, and don't keep close watch over your privacy settings, it's your own fault.

Would it be nice if FB was less of a pain in the ass about this? Sure. But the reality of the situation is quite clear. We're responsible for realities, not for how we'd like things to be.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#298

Post by kelnos »

grepherder wrote: post #245
kelnos wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then that's your own fault. I check my privacy settings every couple months, or when I hear about or see large changes to the interface or offering getting rolled out. I've been on Facebook since April 2004, only a few months after they launched, so clearly I haven't eventually given up. Using the "View As" feature and looking at your profile page while logged out is a good idea too. If you care about your privacy an…

I can see how it's his own fault from a practical viewpoint, but really? Considering opt-in vs. opt-out, status quo bias and all that? I think he has (people have) a right to criticise at least.

Sure, we can criticize all we want, but it's unlikely FB won't change without some form of government regulation (which I do not welcome, for the record). Given the assumption that FB won't change, it's each user's individual responsibility to track their privacy settings if they want to maintain a FB account.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#299

Post by kelnos »

skrish wrote: post #250
kelnos wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then that's your own fault. I check my privacy settings every couple months, or when I hear about or see large changes to the interface or offering getting rolled out. I've been on Facebook since April 2004, only a few months after they launched, so clearly I haven't eventually given up. Using the "View As" feature and looking at your profile page while logged out is a good idea too. If you care about your privacy an…

"Then that's your own fault". I think that is where we disagree. With any other service when such changes are made you are required to opt-in. I tried to manage privacy via Facebook and just gave up as even the options to make certain areas private went away and I have lost track. I have just given up. I agree with your point that IF you still want to be on Facebook this is a mandatory activity (& yet quite difficult…

With any other service when such changes are made you are required to opt-in.

I sincerely doubt that's the case. Most services explicitly state in their ToS that the service can change at any time and it's the user's responsibility to stay abreast of those changes.

That just has potentially scarier implications with a service like FB.

This is what pisses me off about most people: an unwillingness to take personal responsibility for your actions. You have a FB account. You know there are privacy issues around FB. You have three choices: 1) get FB to change so those privacy issues aren't a concern (unlikely to happen, but here for completeness), 2) deactivate your FB account, 3) keep your FB account and monitor privacy settings, be careful what you share, etc.

Those are your choices to make. If you pick #3, and you get bitten by a privacy change that you missed, I'm sympathetic, because it really does suck, but it is ultimately your fault.

Re: Stallman: "Facebook is an international parasitism project."

#300

Post by robertpateii »

jfoster wrote: post #248
robertpateii wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you say is true, but it would still be true if Facebook didn't exist. It will always be true because Internet.

Facebook brings this to the surface. On an Internet without a Facebook-like service, someone may occasionally find a photo of themselves more widely published than they would like. On an Internet with Facebook it happens far more frequently.

Regardless, if it wasn't for facebook it would be happening on flickr or instagram or any other sharing site.

The problem is a legal one, not something that facebook can simply add as a feature. (Though they do have a way to report a photo in addition to untagging it. And then you explain why that photo violates privacy laws. https://www.facebook.com/help/?faq=217091804975136#How-do-I-...)

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