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Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

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Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#291

Post by polski-g »

shric wrote: post #99
justanother wrote: post #14

Starts off with an interesting premise and makes me think, hey, maybe I should re-examine my priors, let's see the evidence. And then the evidence turns out to be something about people who "make more than $100K," and goes on to assert that they "live in gated communities" and "can afford private security." In 2023, "making over 100K" just means that you're usually on-time with your monthly housing payment. Author ma…

> In 2023, "making over 100K" just means that you're usually on-time with your monthly housing payment. This hugely depends on where you live. To 90% (conservatively low) of the world's population making over 100k a year is insane levels of luxury.

It is a luxury belief to believe that $100k is a pauper's salary.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#292

Post by pipes »

danaris wrote: post #226
JanSt wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a university degree and I know all the words but I don't understand what you are trying to say. I'd say colonialism - at least from a european perspective - has a lot more to do with subjugating the identity of the colonized. That's the opposite of "cultural appropriation".

Oh, no; it's absolutely part of it. Cultural appropriation involves the dominant culture taking practices (including things like clothing, music, dance, etc, especially if it's part of a religious practice) of a colonized or marginalized culture, removing them from their cultural context, and using them for their own purposes. That's absolutely subjugating the identity of the colonized: it takes these parts of their…

You are saying this like it's a fact. It's just your opinion on something.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#293

Post by littlestymaar »

lelanthran wrote: post #204
littlestymaar wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are the one missing the point: it's not that this post has a conservative bias (every text necessarily has these kinds of bias, and that's fine). The problem with this post is that it is only here as an argument against liberal ideas that he doesn't like, and as such it's entirely driven by bad faith. Then sure there may be some elements of truth sprinkled every now and then, but every piece of propaganda…

> The problem with this post is that it is only here as an argument against liberal ideas that he doesn't like, Where's the point of making an argument against liberal ideas you do like? Unless you are arguing that anything painted "liberal" should never have arguments made against it? That anyone making an argument against a "liberal" position should have their motives questioned?

No, you can also argue in good faith with ideas you don't like.

But it doesn't seems to be something you're familiar with given your response…

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#294

Post by red-iron-pine »

mech987987 wrote: post #246
danaris wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term "cultural appropriation" has been widely misused and diluted by people who don't really understand it. If I, a white man living in upstate NY, were to don Haudenosaunee ritual gear and record myself performing a traditional dance of theirs, that would be cultural appropriation. It refers to a dominant culture taking the trappings of a colonized or otherwise marginalized culture and using them for entertainme…

Among the people that care about cultural appropriation, there are so many different interpretations of which acts are offensive that it is a minefield of uncertainty. A lot of it feels to me like a vocal minority trying to railroad the discussion.

people without power trying to flex that power. often people with tenuous connections to their culture.

and then bougie middle-class white people getting upset about stuff they don't really understand

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#295

Post by red-iron-pine »

JanSt wrote: post #161
traverseda wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strongest form of that argument I know about is really about how capitalism is eating the world. It's a common refrain that "white people have no culture", but if you replace "white people" with "globalized capitalism" it starts making more sense. Everyone drinks the same can of coke and eats the same grocery store sushi. If you look closer at the woke crowd you'll see that grocery store sushi is pretty "white".…

That's a really weak argument. 1) It has nothing to do with racism but uses the accusation of someone being racist as a tool to push an agenda. 2) Japan still makes good sushi. Supermarket sushi has not destroyed japanese sushi culture 3) I'd argue that capitalism has made the world better in pretty much every aspect. You could argue that capitalism has destroyed the environment, but the fact is that leftist countrie…

> Japan still makes good sushi. Supermarket sushi has not destroyed japanese sushi culture

Japan and other Asian countries expressly push their food and culture as a component of political and economic diplomacy. Like, literally, that's a stated goal. Anime, the Hilux, and sushi have done more to ensure good will to Japan than any lame goodwill gesture.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#296

Post by someuser2345 »

danaris wrote: post #264
JanSt wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, the european/my german perspective does not see this - at least what I have learned. An essential motive of colonialism was the missionization and education of the "primitive, uncivilized race". The Germans saw it as their task to civilize the colonial population by introducing them to German culture and the Christian religion. Other colonial powers, such as Great Britain or France, also followed this ideo…

While it's certainly not an exclusively American phenomenon, cultural appropriation is vastly more likely to occur here than nearly anywhere else, both because we live on (recently-)colonized land, with the remnants of the people we stole it from still living among us, and because we are such a cultural melting pot, so people can much more easily come into contact with the cultural practices of marginalized cultures.…

What's so special about food? Why is it cultural appropriation to wear African clothes, but not appropriation to cook African food? Both are important parts of their culture.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#297

Post by sangnoir »

junofan wrote: post #267
indigo945 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the examples correlate with affluence, which is a necessary condition for them to be included in this article; but it is obviously not a sufficient condition, as all "luxury beliefs" from elsewhere on the political spectrum are excluded. My point is that this is a bad faith argument. The author pretends to care about "luxury" beliefs, but in truth, all he cares about is finding a cheap shot against feminist posi…

I dunno, I read it apolitically. Normal working-class people don’t give a shit about any of this stuff, and as soon as they do, it’ll become unfashionable, and we’ll move on to the next thing.

> dunno, I read it apolitically. Normal working-class people don’t give a shit about any of this stuff

The fiercest culture warriors I know are working-class folk. They do in fact, give a shit about this stuff, no matter where they fall on the political spectrum. I blame the increased polarization.

The irony is that people who claim to be against culture wars - like the author - are they themselves actively engaging in a culture war while feigning neutrality. The truth is that they are simply against one perspective, which betrays either a lack of self-awareness, or bad faith.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#298

Post by isleyaardvark »

junofan wrote: post #267
indigo945 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the examples correlate with affluence, which is a necessary condition for them to be included in this article; but it is obviously not a sufficient condition, as all "luxury beliefs" from elsewhere on the political spectrum are excluded. My point is that this is a bad faith argument. The author pretends to care about "luxury" beliefs, but in truth, all he cares about is finding a cheap shot against feminist posi…

I dunno, I read it apolitically. Normal working-class people don’t give a shit about any of this stuff, and as soon as they do, it’ll become unfashionable, and we’ll move on to the next thing.

Neither do the rich.

It’s wild that this whole piece is based on one response on one question in a poll.

The income bracket breakdown on that question is 22%/23%/32%. Which is significant but isn’t “they’re all top hat wearing elites just trying to impress each other”. “Defund the police” isn’t even the majority opinion of that income bracket.

This whole article is just an attempt to smear liberals. Even if you care about making the case that defund the police is a “luxury” to advance their social standing, then simply pointing to a slightly higher level of support in a higher income bracket is quite frankly stupid.

(As an aside, I don’t think they get the history of dueling right, either.)

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#299

Post by noch »

thisgoesnowhere wrote: post #290
noch wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Defund the police was never a anarcho communist feel good movement despite what articles like this will guide you believe. In this article titled, "Yes, We Mean Literally Abolish the Police": "Enough. We can’t reform the police. The only way to diminish police violence is to reduce contact between the public and the police." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abol... ( https://archive.is/H293i…

Do you think the majority of the people who say defund the police believe that? Just because a minority of people have a terrible opinion doesn't mean the entire movement does. Also even the author doesn't believe they can actually abolish the police. > I’ve been advocating the abolition of the police for years. Regardless of your view on police power — whether you want to get rid of the police or simply to make them…

> Do you think the majority of the people who say defund the police believe that?

You made the following claim:

>> This isn't what defund the police was about at all and is just a strawman to stop inquisitions into the actual point of the defund the police movement.

I was merely providing an example, published in a paper of record in the U.S., that claims to speak for a "we", to show that indeed the spokespeople for the movement are unambiguous in what "defund" means. The article says "we mean" not "I mean".

> Just because a minority of people have a terrible opinion doesn't mean the entire movement does.

Certainly, intransigent minorities tend to drive movements and protests. https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...

Meanwhile the "larpers" attend protests and change profile pictures and "stand with" and chant slogans. That's the luxury belief part.

WW2 Germany was probably similar in the sense that the majority were silent while the radicals were outspoken?

Nonetheless, be careful when you defend a radical movement by asserting that, well actually, they meant a more moderate position:

"[T]he motte-and-bailey doctrine is when you make a bold, controversial statement. Then when somebody challenges you, you retreat to an obvious, uncontroversial statement, and say that was what you meant all along, so you’re clearly right and they’re silly for challenging you. Then when the argument is over you go back to making the bold, controversial statement." https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/03/all-in-all-another-bri...

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#300

Post by 8note »

danaris wrote: post #222
JanSt wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cultural appropriation As a european, I just can't wrap my head around this. How is it racist if I like a food of an other culture so much I cook it? Or I like a hairstyle of different culture so I also want to wear it. Or clothes. Or making music. Or.... I mean, I admire all that stuff so much that I want it to be part of my life. How is this racist?

The term "cultural appropriation" has been widely misused and diluted by people who don't really understand it. If I, a white man living in upstate NY, were to don Haudenosaunee ritual gear and record myself performing a traditional dance of theirs, that would be cultural appropriation. It refers to a dominant culture taking the trappings of a colonized or otherwise marginalized culture and using them for entertainme…

> If I, a white man living in upstate NY, were to don Haudenosaunee ritual gear and record myself performing a traditional dance of theirs, that would be cultural appropriation.

This is insufficient to be cultural appropriation. The context in which you wear the ritual gear and do the dances matter, the same as with the Japanese example.

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