Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks • Hacker News Board

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#291

Post by jjav » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

hans1729 wrote: post #96

lmt55 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have missed a source of demand, and I think it's important. As housing became more and more expensive to young professionals, some people in this group have worked harder and harder to buy property, even to the point where it no longer seems rational. For example, parents taking a lot of wealth out of their retirement savings or their own homes to assist children in buying. Professionals are working more…

I did not miss those people, but my wording was loaded and so the point got lost in translation. I implicitly captured them under b) "[...] it's dumb to buy estates where the price is set by people and institutions that have n times your own income/net worth" , where dumb is a loaded term for your > "to the point where it no longer seems rational" . > But crucially, the presence of this group of people arguably turns…

> Going in debt for 30-40 years has zero appeal for me, it just seems like a terrible move.

That's not the best way to look at it.

Unless you plan on being homeless, you're already inevitably committed to a monthly housing payment for most of your life.

So the decision becomes, do you pay someone else to enrich them and commmit to having to pay for the rest of your life? Or do you invest in something where you partly pay yourself and there is an end (even if far) to the payments, so when you're old you no longer have those monthly payments?

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#292

Post by AviationAtom » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 3:43 PM UTC

coredog64 wrote: post #267

redshirtrob wrote: post #237

Has anyone actually used Rocket? Every time I (or a friend) have looked at them they have higher closing costs and wanted multiple points to close the mortgage. I was able to do way, way better by going with a local bank, as did my friends. The only thing I can figure is they are better for folks with "good" (not "excellent") credit and can maybe close the loan faster.

Something to note about your local bank/CU. They might originate the loan, but as sure as water is wet they’re going to sell it to someone else for service. If you have a good working relationship that you can used for good terms, then go for it. But don’t go with a local bank because you think you’ll continue to work with them.

Our bank sold our loan before the first payment even came due.

That said, they were phenomenal during the whole origination process, and they gave us a rock bottom rate (2.375%).

My only fear is servicing being transferred multiple times, rapidly, then having to decipher who to pay now.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#293

Post by AviationAtom » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 3:44 PM UTC

doctoboggan wrote: post #170

My wife and I will be moving to Chicago soon and we intend on buying a house when we get there. How screwed are we by the current housing situation and interest rates?

Interest rates? Better get prequalified and see if you can't lock in.

Getting an accepted offer? Getting better by the day, in many areas.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#294

Post by cactus2093 » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #175

hans1729 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, it's not really a burst, we're just hearing the hissing noise of the obvious leak. The true demand from people with the intend to actually live in the estates has been constantly decreasing since around 2000; the real salarys dropped since then, so did the buying power. The only reasons people found buyers at x3-x10 (!) prices were a) that there is a class of people wealthy enough to still afford the purchase…

You're forgetting a.2) the "wealthy" people usually have high incomes, and the x10 houses are usually in high tax states, and housing is a huge tax break. ~20% or my housing "cost" is paid for by a tax break for owning a house. Another ~20% is principal. When you also factor in that the Fed guarantees to devalue money at AT LEAST ~3% per year, and you have 5x leverage (or more) - that's another ~15% effectively subsi…

With the SALT cap at $10k and the mortgage interest deduction cap limited to $750k property value, the ultra-wealthy are not really benefitting from this as much as you are saying.

Someone with a $750-$1M home is getting roughly the maximum tax break available, and someone with a $5M home is paying for everything above that first $1M themselves* without any extra tax incentives.

*Except in California due to prop 13 many of them are paying a tiny fraction of the property tax they should be paying, but that's a separate issue.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#295

Post by nikanj » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #161

nikanj wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Greater Kelowna is the fastest-growing urban area in the country, Statistics Canada reported Friday. The Central Okanagan's population rose 14% between 2016 and 2021, from 194,892 to 222,162, according to information gathered during last year's census." In fact, all three of your examples are on the list of fastest growing locations - Halifax at 8th and Barrie at 13th https://canadamag.ca/fastest-growing-cities-in-c…

"Fastest growing urban area in Canada" is like the "fastest sprinter at the senior center". Sure it's fast relative to other cities, but not in an absolute sense. Kelowna grew 14% over 5 years? So 2.7% a year? Or 5,500 people per year? Kelowna is a tiny town in the middle of BC. Jobs are scarce. Vast swaths of undeveloped land surround the town. Wages are pretty typical, yet a modest house is $1,000,000. Does that ma…

Did Kelowna add 5500 new homes per year, every single year? Or even 550?

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#296

Post by sc00ty » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 3:50 PM UTC

redshirtrob wrote: post #237

Has anyone actually used Rocket? Every time I (or a friend) have looked at them they have higher closing costs and wanted multiple points to close the mortgage. I was able to do way, way better by going with a local bank, as did my friends. The only thing I can figure is they are better for folks with "good" (not "excellent") credit and can maybe close the loan faster.

I refinanced back in November. I'd say the process was very easy, at least compared to getting my original loan in 2015. Went through pre-approval online, talked to someone on the phone for 5 minutes, and was pretty much scheduled. E-signed a few docs and then they sent someone to my home to finalize it. From pre-approval to closing, the whole process took about 3 weeks.

My local rates were over 3% for a 15 year, they got me 2.25% + .25% in points.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#297

Post by Sohcahtoa82 » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 3:50 PM UTC

bitexploder wrote: post #184

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How soon? If trends continue, prices will start falling. You might be able to offer under asking, too. I bought 15% under asking in October of last year. Chicago didn't really go crazy like Phoenix or Palm Springs...

Most of Denver region had been hot as well.

I've heard Denver is extremely popular because you have all the amenities of a big city (They even have a Six Flags!), yet is right next to beautiful mountains and nature. Some parts even still have a small town feel.

Of course, I've also heard that a significant fraction of those moving in are single men, to the point where the city has gotten the nickname "Menver".

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#298

Post by jjav » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 3:51 PM UTC

hans1729 wrote: post #118

pjc50 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Going in debt for 30-40 years has zero appeal for me Going into debt at the lowest interest rate you'll ever be offered to buy a leveraged asset that's likely to increase in price and reduce the overhead you pay on your largest expense, housing, and hedge against the risk of rent increases and security against the whims of landlords? > Germany Oh, Germany. Somehow Germany has escaped the constantly increasing house…

> Going into debt at the lowest interest rate you'll ever be offered to buy a leveraged asset that's likely to increase in price and reduce the overhead you pay on your largest expense, housing, and hedge against the risk of rent increases and security against the whims of landlords? Look, if I had enough money around, I'd maybe consider the gamble. But I don't want to buy property to sell it later, I just want to li…

> "No debt" is synonymous to freedom on so many levels in life design.

No debt is indeed great freedom in general.

But housing is different. Do you plan to live somewhere? You still have to pay for it. For as long as you live you'll need to live somewhere and that means paying for it. Whether you call it rent or mortgage, you're still paying, there's no escape.

So, within those constraints, it is better to invest in a house than to enrich someone else for the rest of your life.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#299

Post by onlyrealcuzzo » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 3:52 PM UTC

cactus2093 wrote: post #294

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're forgetting a.2) the "wealthy" people usually have high incomes, and the x10 houses are usually in high tax states, and housing is a huge tax break. ~20% or my housing "cost" is paid for by a tax break for owning a house. Another ~20% is principal. When you also factor in that the Fed guarantees to devalue money at AT LEAST ~3% per year, and you have 5x leverage (or more) - that's another ~15% effectively subsi…

With the SALT cap at $10k and the mortgage interest deduction cap limited to $750k property value, the ultra-wealthy are not really benefitting from this as much as you are saying. Someone with a $750-$1M home is getting roughly the maximum tax break available, and someone with a $5M home is paying for everything above that first $1M themselves* without any extra tax incentives. *Except in California due to prop 13 m…

Most "wealthy" people, by definition, are not "ultra wealthy". That's where the majority of the wealth is - but there's far better schemes to avoid taxes for that group.

Home buyers buying these x10 houses are pretty much limited to the top 10% in income - the vast majority of them are not ultra wealthy.

Re: Rocket Mortgage to trim 8% of workforce as home-loan market shrinks

#300

Post by cactus2093 » Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 3:54 PM UTC

redshirtrob wrote: post #237

Has anyone actually used Rocket? Every time I (or a friend) have looked at them they have higher closing costs and wanted multiple points to close the mortgage. I was able to do way, way better by going with a local bank, as did my friends. The only thing I can figure is they are better for folks with "good" (not "excellent") credit and can maybe close the loan faster.

Exactly what I was thinking. Is this really a trend in the overall market or does Rocket Mortgage just suck?

When I looked into it they wouldn't do jumbo loans (which is just anything slightly above the median home price in the state of California these days) and their rates on traditional loans were worse than the big bank I was comparing it to.

On top of that it's not even an automated tech solution like they pretend it is, it seems to be just a thin veneer of a shiny website that then connects you to a traditional lender. So it's not even really any more convenient in terms of submitting paperwork and stuff, at least for the initial quote that was my experience.