Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 304 posts

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#291

Post by littlestymaar »

duskwuff wrote: post #248
littlestymaar wrote: post #184

Couldn't Mozilla just send a DMCA notice for trademark infringement?

No. That's ridiculous. Trademark does not allow the trademark holder to police who can use their name to refer to them.

That may sounds ridiculous to an American, but in France (and I wouldn't be surprised if it was the case in other European countries) that's exactly what trademark holders can do. You cannot use a trademark without consent of the owner (unless you're a journalist). For instance TV shows must hide the logos of every brands appearing on screen unless the brand agrees to be displayed. You cannot use a competitor's brand in your add to make fun of them, etc.

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#292

Post by musicale »

npteljes wrote: post #264
AequitasOmnibus wrote: post #10

The reason disposable email addresses exist and are popular is because services have abused users' trust to not use these emails for shady ad revenue and marketing schemes. It's further compounded by shoddy security that leads to leaks and exposure of people's personal email addresses to pwned compromised lists. People don't want to give up their personal email addresses so that they can be spammed or hacked. Until s…

The reason disposable emails exist, and that countermeasures exist, is because it's a power struggle, plain and simple. People like to have control over a situation, from either side, and also abuse their power from both sides.

There may be a power struggle between marketers and some bad actors, but most users are not bad actors and simply don't want to be spammed.

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#293

Post by littlestymaar »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #245
littlestymaar wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The DMCA doesn't handle trademark That's a good point > and if a link to a site counts as trademark infringement the internet is dead. It's not a “link to a site” though, it's a public blacklist of domains involved in spam and abuse. I have no idea about how the US trademark laws work,but in my country at least (France), doing so is a great way to get sued by the company. (And yes, this also applies to product revi…

That ruling only shows that the courts have the right to hear that international case, I'd guess whether the comments were derogatory will take a while longer. Either way, there are few parallels between moderating a users potentially false comments and correctly labeling a site as a disposable email domain.

Are you French? If so, you should know that French Trademark law is super restrictive (you can't show a brand name in a TV show[1] without permission). If no, why would you even comment on the legal system of a country you don't know at all?

[1]: journalists are exempted indeed, I'm talking about entertainment here.

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#294

Post by smusamashah »

Correct me if I am wrong please. Aren't relay email address with custom domain more prone to spam?

If I give my email *@.mozmail.com to a spammer, now they know the custom domain I own and can spam me on infinitely generated aliases on this domain e.g. by sending emails at @.mozmail.com?

This is such a simple exploit.

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#295

Post by boomboomsubban »

littlestymaar wrote: post #293
boomboomsubban wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That ruling only shows that the courts have the right to hear that international case, I'd guess whether the comments were derogatory will take a while longer. Either way, there are few parallels between moderating a users potentially false comments and correctly labeling a site as a disposable email domain.

Are you French? If so, you should know that French Trademark law is super restrictive (you can't show a brand name in a TV show[1] without permission). If no, why would you even comment on the legal system of a country you don't know at all? [1]: journalists are exempted indeed, I'm talking about entertainment here.

>If no, why would you even comment on the legal system of a country you don't know at all?

I commented on the article you linked. I don't know about French law, but I do know your source didn't back up your claim. I find it hard to believe a URL can be trademarked, things like search engines just couldn't function that way.

And why would you comment about the DMCA, a part of a legal system you seemingly don't know at all?

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#296

Post by pbowyer »

greenyoda wrote: post #237
pbowyer wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your free trial is too generous. Suggest using the Standard plan but with significant rate limiting. Like 5/day. If they want to remove that, enter credit card details which you verify. You can still have the trial expire and the credit card isn't ever charged; but you can track people on trials more easily.

> You can still have the trial expire and the credit card isn't ever charged; but you can track people on trials more easily. I think that someone who doesn't want to give their real email address to try out a service is even less likely to trust an unknown service with their credit card number. There are just too many "free trials" that promise to not charge your credit card and then make you jump all sorts of hurdl…

> I think that someone who doesn't want to give their real email address to try out a service is even less likely to trust an unknown service with their credit card number.

And that's OK. The problem as I understand it is that people are signing up with disposable email addresses, using the API key they receive for 7 days, and then signing up again. They are leeches, exploiting the generous free trial.

If they stop signing up, no problem. Other people who sign up with a disposable email address can test within the restrictions, and once they trust the service have a choice to enter card details or not. If they are planning to do business with the service, they're going to have to trust it with card details.

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#297

Post by ajnin »

martenson wrote: post #263
ajnin wrote: post #107

This project seems to work under the pretense of fighting the spammers. Maybe it actually does. But it also deprives people of their right to not be tracked constantly, to remain anonymous. A world with no crime is a world without individual freedoms. The way this is so casually and openly discussed here is slightly terrifying.

To work around our list while having a decent level of privacy just do not use a complete burner address. You can e.g. make a pseudonym address with an actual provider like gmail, fastmail, protonmail etc. Heck we even have an allowlist with some "shady" providers that balance on the edge included in the repo, just browse: https://github.com/disposable-email-domains/disposable-email...

In retrospect my comment was probably too harsh. Thanks for providing an escape hatch, but it's practically impossible to create an anonymous gmail account.

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#298

Post by ajnin »

floatingatoll wrote: post #193
ajnin wrote: post #107

This project seems to work under the pretense of fighting the spammers. Maybe it actually does. But it also deprives people of their right to not be tracked constantly, to remain anonymous. A world with no crime is a world without individual freedoms. The way this is so casually and openly discussed here is slightly terrifying.

A world with no accountability is a world without individual safety. One’s individual right to remain anonymous does not necessarily take precedence over the societal right to hold one accountable. The pendulum of that tension swung all the way to fully anonymous over the past decades, and we now have the most unsafe Internet that has ever existed. It will, guaranteed, swing back from full anonymity, as already began…

"Safety" is the capability to exert your individual freedoms freely. If, to ensure that safety, you suppressed the freedoms, then you've failed.

But we're not talking about fighting crime here, but companies tracking what people do and as far as I know there is no societal right for Discord and LinkedIn to track people.

If that pendulum ever swings back too far, and you're right, it likely will, I'll be sure to let "my politicians" know using regular old no-government-id-required email as I already did on occasion with no issue.

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#299

Post by Vinnl »

bastawhiz wrote: post #66

It's arguably the case that Firefox Relay is no different from the other services in this list. If someone can use it to create ~unlimited identities for almost free, that serves the same purpose as any other disposable email service. And frankly, there's no sense in getting upset about a directory of services that allow the creation of unlimited disposable identities. If it wasn't this github repo, it would be anoth…

> Setting limits (...) makes it harder to abuse services with those identities. Almost no legitimate users actually need truly unlimited email addresses (...). Even generous limits would help to avoid many problems.

Note that Relay already rate-limits customers:

> we limit our free users to 5 total aliases, and we rate-limit our premium customers so they cannot create large-scale throw-away aliases for abusive sign-ups and behaviors.

https://github.com/wesbos/burner-email-providers/pull/339

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#300

Post by littlestymaar »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #295
littlestymaar wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you French? If so, you should know that French Trademark law is super restrictive (you can't show a brand name in a TV show[1] without permission). If no, why would you even comment on the legal system of a country you don't know at all? [1]: journalists are exempted indeed, I'm talking about entertainment here.

>If no, why would you even comment on the legal system of a country you don't know at all? I commented on the article you linked. I don't know about French law, but I do know your source didn't back up your claim. I find it hard to believe a URL can be trademarked, things like search engines just couldn't function that way. And why would you comment about the DMCA, a part of a legal system you seemingly don't know at…

> And why would you comment about the DMCA, a part of a legal system you seemingly don't know at all?

You realized that I asked a question about it right?

> I commented on the article you linked. I don't know about French law, but I do know your source didn't back up your claim.

The source was about the (only tangentially related) issue of product reviews, since I was talking about it in a side note parenthesis. Not about the main topic.

> I find it hard to believe a URL can be trademarked

It's not an URL, it's a domain name. (a URL is a string “://]”) and domain names are clearly subject to trademarks in France[1]. But it's seems to be different in the US[2].

[1]: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milka_contre_Kraft_Foods

[2]: otherwise Facebook wouldn't have needed to pay $200,000 for its domain name I guess?

Post reply on HN