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Opt Out of Cynicism

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Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#291

Post by unmole »

nescioquid wrote: post #285
yesenadam wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the GP is largely spot on. Evidence is not easy for me to link to now—when I looked into this a few years ago, I looked up a few of the books linked to in the substantial Controversy section of Frankl's wikipedia page. That section was erased by Frankl's grandson a couple of years ago–yes, hard to believe. Before that, it said something like - Frankl only spent a week at Auschwitz, not the many months the b…

Thanks for the response, as I was unaware of this. Unlike the GP, you've provided reasons for the criticism which is what I'd rather see than bald assertions of "person bad".

> what I'd rather see than bald assertions of "person bad".

Can you point to such an assertion in the GP?

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#292

Post by prox »

nefitty wrote: post #284
prox wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are your thoughts on engaging in social media (say this comment thread), it is so easy to forget there is (probably!) a living and breathing person on the other end. I made friends in gaming who have different worldviews and sometimes debates came up (say covid and vaccins) and the debates really changed attitudes and understanding. It has been such a difference than many debates here or on worse on reddit, or a…

It seems like people that are highly engaged in online conversations do so because they, consciously or not, think their contributions will pull the universe toward some goal. That goal might be "truth", "freedom", "absurdity", etc. (Uncovering those goals sounds like a really fun project.) I think some of it also comes from status needs. Specifically, dominance. I don't understand the lurker mindset whatsoever. It h…

Thanks for those insights, you raise some good points and food for thought.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#293

Post by nescioquid »

unmole wrote: post #291
nescioquid wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the response, as I was unaware of this. Unlike the GP, you've provided reasons for the criticism which is what I'd rather see than bald assertions of "person bad".

> what I'd rather see than bald assertions of "person bad". Can you point to such an assertion in the GP?

The assertion that Frankl is "nonesense" and his ideas were a "schtick". That was the sole content of the comment. If there's a reason to be critical, I want to know why, not be treated to name-calling.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#294

Post by bullen »

Oscar Wilde was wrong about the definition of the word Cynic (Dog):

Dog-like Diogenes knew the true value of things, because he had lost all money.

He lived like an animal, which is what we all are destined to; since eternal growth is impossible.

Cynical to me means to live without material wealth, and while most people would call that suicide;

I think everyone that has things, specially as those require you to burn energy, are suicidal.

Everything is relative.

You cannot really own anything in life except what is in your head and by extension what you created out of that head from scratch.

Stop consuming and start producing would be the only constuctive reaction to all comments on this article.

It's very easy to be an optimist when you have never taken any responsibility.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#295

Post by marginalia_nu »

janto wrote: post #289
marginalia_nu wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, the question is then, why should we want behaviour that is viable over multiple interactions across long stretches of time?

Because when we get the opposite, our own behaviour has ultimately driven us into the ground and we end up in hell or dead.

Right, but some might consider the other end of the spectrum as also bad.

Extremely stable societies are often marked by low social mobility and oppressive social mores, yet they fulfill every check mark according to your definition of good. It would also deem the emancipation of slaves an evil deed, since it disrupts a stable pattern of social order that's extended for a long stretch of time.

I don't know if I would deem something like ancient egypt, which had a social order that persisted largely unchanged for several thousand years, one of the most stable societies known in history (also an oppressive theocracy), I don't know if that is my idea of good.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#296

Post by marginalia_nu »

nefitty wrote: post #288
marginalia_nu wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, the question is then, why should we want behaviour that is viable over multiple interactions across long stretches of time?

Your question is big. The answer I've landed on is little. We're just little furry wiggly wombly tubes struggling against the inevitable pressures of entropy. This is true down to the most basic molecule than can replicate. Objective moral truths stem from that. The unending dance with entropy. To be the belle of the ball, we also harness that entropic randomness and turn it into dances that are even more powerful. I…

Right, but I just don't understand how you can generalize your subjective experiences to objective truth, especially in the face of people disagreeing. If a truth requires some particular perspective our outlook to become apparent, then it just isn't objective.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#297

Post by bulochka »

nefitty wrote: post #284
prox wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are your thoughts on engaging in social media (say this comment thread), it is so easy to forget there is (probably!) a living and breathing person on the other end. I made friends in gaming who have different worldviews and sometimes debates came up (say covid and vaccins) and the debates really changed attitudes and understanding. It has been such a difference than many debates here or on worse on reddit, or a…

It seems like people that are highly engaged in online conversations do so because they, consciously or not, think their contributions will pull the universe toward some goal. That goal might be "truth", "freedom", "absurdity", etc. (Uncovering those goals sounds like a really fun project.) I think some of it also comes from status needs. Specifically, dominance. I don't understand the lurker mindset whatsoever. It h…

> I don't understand the lurker mindset whatsoever. It has to be how most people interact with the internet though, otherwise there would be 10's of thousands of comments on every post here.

I, for example, simply did not have any interesting thoughts to share most of the time and didn't bother commenting when I did have some. But you just changed my attitude towards that. Thanks! I even created an account here :)

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#298

Post by mensetmanusman »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #213
The_Colonel wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is cynical to see only this side of the coin. What about passionate creators who use advertising as a means to finance their vocation? What about the wide informational and educational value of media?

> What about passionate creators who use advertising as a means to finance their vocation? They need to find new business models. > What about the wide informational and educational value of media? It's great but also a relatively tiny minority of all content. A niche really. And even those tend have ads.

How would a new business or bakery survive if no one knew they existed? Telling people you exist is advertisement.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#299

Post by jessaustin »

davidw wrote: post #41

This is an important point. One of the things I really disliked about life in Italy was the cynical, defeatist attitude prevalent among certain people. " All the politicians are corrupt", "nothing will ever change", "why bother trying, they won't let anything happen", and so on and so forth. I realized it's a great way to ensure that nothing happens or changes.

I'm not Italian, but 20th-century history might motivate some of them to distrust "populist" political efforts.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#300

Post by mensetmanusman »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #5
gfodor wrote: post #2

the #1 advice I would give to a young engineer entering their career is to do everything they can to avoid becoming cynical. technology has cycles, but it also moves forward. it's a helix. most people who churn through a few cycles end up becoming cynical, failing to see the orthogonal dimension of progress. how to avoid cynicism? the primary way is to remove cynics from your life, and add optimists. second to that,…

One thing I've noticed is that if I talk about the stuff in tech I'm passionate about - people tend not to give a shit. If I talk about the things I dislike, I am flooded with imaginary internet points.

Since this sounds like a complaint, I will upvote it :)
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