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US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

bbc.co.uk

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Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#291

Post by UncleOxidant »

laplacesdemon48 wrote: post #103

Both the AstraZeneca and J&J vaccines use an adenovirus to deliver DNA instead of mRNA wrapped in lipid (like Moderna & Pfizer). Everywhere I read about the J&J vaccine, I see something like "the DNA vaccine doesn't alter your DNA". Can somebody please clear this up? As far as I understand, the mRNA just stays in the cytoplasm of the cell and gets used up by the ribosome to create spike proteins. The adenovirus vecto…

Whenever you catch a cold or flu those are generally DNA viruses (unless it's a coronavirus cold). Those don't alter your DNA.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#292

Post by jjk166 »

johnnyapol wrote: post #190
ceejayoz wrote: post #2

Six cases in seven million administered doses. One death. Meanwhile, hormonal birth control causes clots in 1/1,000 women. No one blinks an eye. The vaccine hesitancy this engenders is likely gonna kill more than that one person. https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1381936112311148548 > Public health bureaucrats have some weird habits in how they reason under uncertainty and how they communicate to the public. I…

I'm not saying your calculus is wrong but this does make an assumption that all clots are created equal and I don't believe that is the case. The specific issue being observed is "cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST)" in combination with "low levels of blood platelets (thrombocytopenia)" per the Joint CDC and FDA statement (1). Low blood platelets means anti-clotting treatments can pose a substantial bleeding incr…

> Cerebral venous sinus thrombosis is rare, with an estimated 3-4 cases per million annual incidence in adults. While it may occur in all age groups, it is most common in the third decade. 75% are female. [0]

6 cases in 7 million over 3 months with mostly women being affected is exactly what we'd expect to see.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_venous_sinus_thrombos....

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#293

Post by loeg »

kaczordon wrote: post #271
myrandomcomment wrote: post #230

Okay so I want to make something very clear here. The rule is to put it very very simply, is you can ship any drug that is approved but you have to list the side effects. This drug was approved under an emergency order and this side effect was not listed. This will get paused long enough for the side effects to be updated and then used again. The arguments about “well the birth control pill has a higher risk” are usi…

Umm maybe because the blood clot issue is being underreported because no one is looking for it? We’re essentially doing mass experimentation with gene-based vaccines on the US population, all the vaccines use either mRNA or DNA insertion. Caution here is the logical and ethical thing. Also: the side effect profile for the moderna and pfizer vaccines in the clinical trials was far WORSE than the jnj vaccine. Edit: gen…

Definitely not under reported. I've heard about it, despite an incidence rate of ~10^-6.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#295

Post by amalcon »

simple_phrases wrote: post #281
kaczordon wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm maybe because the blood clot issue is being underreported because no one is looking for it? We’re essentially doing mass experimentation with gene-based vaccines on the US population, all the vaccines use either mRNA or DNA insertion. Caution here is the logical and ethical thing. Also: the side effect profile for the moderna and pfizer vaccines in the clinical trials was far WORSE than the jnj vaccine. Edit: gen…

Gene therapy and mRNA vaccines are two very different things.

This is the J&J vaccine, which is not mRNA-based. It's an adenovirus vector vaccine, which is also not gene therapy but is a (tiny) bit closer than an mRNA vaccine.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#296

Post by davewritescode »

loonster wrote: post #225
conistonwater wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, that doesn't sound quite right: the benefit of taking the vaccine goes not only to you, it's also to the people you would have otherwise infected by spreading the virus yourself.

And if they get infected, they will also become immune (and likely a better immunity than the vaccine).

I'm calling BS here.

It's highly likely that natural infection provides worse protection that vaccination and we have real world evidence that already suggests this.

1. Two exposures to the spike protein are likely to create a much better long term immune response simply because of multiple exposures in a short period of time.

2. The spike protein produced by the mRNA and J&J vaccines is engineered to produce better response against variants.

3. We've already seen evidence of natural infection performing poorly in rural parts of Brazil with very high initial infection rates (> 70% which is near the herd immunity threshold) like Manaus where we're seeing significant evidence of reinfection where it should be have been difficult for COVID to spread.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n394

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#297

Post by ceejayoz »

dahfizz wrote: post #258
conistonwater wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, that doesn't sound quite right: the benefit of taking the vaccine goes not only to you, it's also to the people you would have otherwise infected by spreading the virus yourself.

Can't you still spread covid if you are vaccinated? Don't you still have to wear a mask and social distance? That doesn't add up with what we are being told.

> Can't you still spread covid if you are vaccinated? Don't you still have to wear a mask and social distance?

There's been jumbled messaging on this.

The "you still need to wear a mask" thing was, if you dig in on the actual statements instead of the media headlines, "because we don't know yet". An abundance of caution.

Since then, we've gotten quite a bit of good data on that front.

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-israel-va...

> Data analysis in a study by the Israeli Health Ministry and Pfizer Inc found the Pfizer vaccine developed with Germany’s BioNTech reduces infection, including in asymptomatic cases, by 89.4% and in syptomatic cases by 93.7%.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#298

Post by ipaddr »

dahfizz wrote: post #235
ceejayoz wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being in the nucleus and being integrated into your chromosomes so that they are copied during cell division aren't the same thing. https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/9160... > Adenoviruses -- even as they occur in nature -- just do not have the capacity to alter DNA. Unlike retroviruses such as HIV or lentiviruses, wild-type adenoviruses do not carry the enzymatic machinery necessary for integra…

This sounds a bit like a technicality. The DNA makes it into the cell nucleus and is used by the cell machinery to make proteins. The changes aren't carried over after cell division, but lots of cells in your body last your whole life (nerves, brain cells, eye cells, important stuff).

I was under the impression all cells in the body will be regenerated in 7 years.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#299

Post by kaczordon »

loeg wrote: post #293
kaczordon wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm maybe because the blood clot issue is being underreported because no one is looking for it? We’re essentially doing mass experimentation with gene-based vaccines on the US population, all the vaccines use either mRNA or DNA insertion. Caution here is the logical and ethical thing. Also: the side effect profile for the moderna and pfizer vaccines in the clinical trials was far WORSE than the jnj vaccine. Edit: gen…

Definitely not under reported. I've heard about it, despite an incidence rate of ~10^-6.

Underreported means how many cases of this have been caught. Not how much news agencies report on this.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#300

Post by weakfish »

symlinkk wrote: post #279
jdauriemma wrote: post #256

Behold, the vaccine experts of Hacker News!

Are we not allowed to discuss something unless we have a PhD in that field?

You can discuss it, but platforms tend to allow echo chambers to pop up where people listen to non-experts to confirm their biases.

We should only be taking medical advice from PhD, I would argue.

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