Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet • Hacker News Board

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#291

Post by seanmcdirmid » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 3:55 PM UTC

FooBarWidget wrote: post #166

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And no, you don't go to jail for not toeing the party line. That's not how it works. No you don’t. But you might find your work visa renewal denied. Things can get inconvenient really quickly, as a foreigner you don’t want to be a grass mud horse while in China, river crab is the only way to go. > If you're Jeff Bezos and you piss off the guy in a government department... Then Jeff Bezos sues the government, which…

> No you don’t. But you might find your work visa renewal denied. Daniel Dumbrill, a vlogger in China, literally criticized the Guangzhou government for its negligent behavior against African workers. I did the same. We did this more than a year ago and we're both still fine. > Then Jeff Bezos sues the government, which is exactly what happened. You missed the point. You can't sue the government into continuing to do…

Just because it doesn’t happen to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, or that it could happen. If you have a 60k/month job, you can’t really take the risk that your visa won’t be renewed.

> You missed the point. You can't sue the government into continuing to do business with you.

No, of course you can, and that is what Amazon is doing.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#292

Post by dotancohen » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 3:59 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #253

ConcreteGidget wrote: post #63

Does anyone have any book recommendations for non-chinese people to understand CCP power structures? I'm completely lost in all of this Jack Ma stuff.

The Chinese government is highly structured and in general features most of the things one might expect in a modern nation-state (an executive, a legislature, a court system, etc.) The exception, and what makes it hard to understand for outsiders, is that one of the political parties (Chinese Communist Party) is also an extra, supervisory, branch of government and sits on-top of and permeates all the regular bureaucr…

  > One way of thinking of it is that the government of China is
  > not allowed to have a military, and the ruling political
  > party's own security forces have assumed that role

Not dissimilar to the Lebanese situation in practice, then?

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#293

Post by Aunche » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:00 PM UTC

sebmellen wrote: post #169

FooBarWidget wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, I don't even consider myself particularly pro-CCP. But CCP is the only party that actually advances the interests of Chinese civilization. All the other parties only care about destroying CCP, no matter the negative consequences to Chinese society. Also, half of the reasons people use to oppose the CCP, are either false, or based on twisted half-truths. When I see such unwarranted attacks, how can I not…

That's an interesting insight — that the CCP is perhaps the best choice of many bad choices (the "lesser evil" as we say in the US). I do understand your perspective, but I respectfully disagree (though I do admit I don't know that much about how China really works). Of course, China is a developed economy, and there is a lot of really impressive and legitimate industry in China. The hardware markets of Shenzen, the…

>But it isn't, and that's because of the setup of the US government.

It has though. For the majority of its existence America had continuously screwed over the Native Americans. In fact, one of the primary reasons for the American revolution was to allow colonists to settle on Native American land. It's only after the natives lost their will to fight when America decided to play nice with them. This is pretty much what happened to Tibet and no doubt is going to happen to Xinjiang.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#294

Post by FooBarWidget » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

slumpt_ wrote: post #288

FooBarWidget wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't deny there are camps. I deny there are concentration camps with the intention to murder people. Big difference. I don't say all camps are good. I don't say nobody is being ill-treated. I'm sure there are incidents. But I deny that it's a mass concentration camp with the intention of murdering 2 million people . Big difference. All the interviews with people who say there are concentration camps, are with Uygh…

I suggest you look up the definition of a concentration camp. Slaughter need not be part of the intention. Nor was it a claim I made. Nor does it make it any less heinous.

There is no need to be pedantic about technical or legal definitions. We all know that the word 'concentration camp' is used to conjure up images of Nazis killing jews en masse. But I'm arguing they're not killing/enslaving Uyghurs en masse. I base this on my own research and sources.

If you go by the more flexible definition of 'large number of people in a small room' regardless of what actually happens to them: I can't independently verify how large rooms are but I agree that people should be treated as humanely as possible.

But in all of this, you've completely neglected the fact that China has reeducation camps (real reeducation camps, not "reeducation camps" in quotes) is because of terrorism influences from Afghanistan. If you watch the video I provided, there's a testimony that says that the US were in Afghanistan in order to make use of Uyghur extremists to destabilize China. What is China supposed to do, do nothing and let people continue to walk around with bombs and machetes? China isn't doing all this just for fun, terrorism is a real problem that has no good solution without collateral damage.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#295

Post by duxup » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:04 PM UTC

LegitShady wrote: post #290

duxup wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation is weird regardless of the existence of a charity.

The situation is normal for totalitarianism.

I don't doubt it.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#296

Post by DanBC » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

FooBarWidget wrote: post #294

slumpt_ wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest you look up the definition of a concentration camp. Slaughter need not be part of the intention. Nor was it a claim I made. Nor does it make it any less heinous.

There is no need to be pedantic about technical or legal definitions. We all know that the word 'concentration camp' is used to conjure up images of Nazis killing jews en masse. But I'm arguing they're not killing/enslaving Uyghurs en masse. I base this on my own research and sources. If you go by the more flexible definition of 'large number of people in a small room' regardless of what actually happens to them: I c…

> We all know that the word 'concentration camp' is used to conjure up images of Nazis killing jews en masse.

There's a really important point here about holocaust denial. We need to make sure that people understand some of the camps were extermination camps, and that some of the camps were work camps. This is because anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists will point to the work camps and say "See? No evidence of people being killed in this camp. That 6 million number doesn't make any sense."

Concentrations camps aren't just about mass murder. They're a human rights violation and we rightly draw attention to this by using the correct terms.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#297

Post by eloff » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

TameAntelope wrote: post #265

xdavidliu wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is certainly not true if the "anyone else" is Jack Ma. If I gave you gun, and asked you to "hold" Jeff Bezos, you would certainly not be able to do it.

Where am I? Where is Bezos? What are the additional hypothetical details of this scenario? Do I know how to use a gun in this scenario (I do not IRL)? I've only met one billionaire, but he was definitely not guarded by anyone, and had I the inclination, skills, and firepower, I could have easily taken him at gunpoint. I don't accept the notion that Jack Ma is guarded 100% of the time, that's movie fiction.

Many billionaires, famous people, and ex-leaders of countries have bodyguards when they go out in public. Bezos has bodyguards.

Some billionaires are relatively unknown, so maybe they get away without needing that.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#298

Post by angry-tempest » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:15 PM UTC

paxys wrote: post #13

oars wrote: post #10

I would love to see Facebook and Amazon researchers join forces and try to figure out whether this is a deepfake or not. https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/machine-learning/facebook-uses-...

It doesn't have to be a deepfake. It isn't hard to compel someone in captivity to record a 50 second video.

At that point, why not get an actor and use a ton of make up to cover the imperfections?

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#299

Post by mistermann » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:21 PM UTC

crististm wrote: post #234

Razengan wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How appropriate, people being told to shut up on a post about people being made to shut up. Dammit dang, downvote abuse is a real issue. The very fact that people keep bringing this up should clue you in. Once or twice, okay maybe it's the complainer's perception that's wrong, but again and again, for over a year? Then your damn system has a problem. The least you could do to address it is not let downvotes instantly…

This is not a one year problem. And it will stay that way because, as you know, HN is a corporation. Not a public forum. Maintaining these rules allow dang@co to maintain the position of control over what happen in HN. The corollary is that changing them will dilute their control. They found a local maximum of discourse level and they keep it that way. The justification that the discourse on HN is maintained at a hig…

Overton Window 201

Moloch is always and everywhere.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#300

Post by FooBarWidget » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:24 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #296

FooBarWidget wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no need to be pedantic about technical or legal definitions. We all know that the word 'concentration camp' is used to conjure up images of Nazis killing jews en masse. But I'm arguing they're not killing/enslaving Uyghurs en masse. I base this on my own research and sources. If you go by the more flexible definition of 'large number of people in a small room' regardless of what actually happens to them: I c…

> We all know that the word 'concentration camp' is used to conjure up images of Nazis killing jews en masse. There's a really important point here about holocaust denial. We need to make sure that people understand some of the camps were extermination camps, and that some of the camps were work camps. This is because anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists will point to the work camps and say "See? No evidence of people b…

But I also reject the notion that there are forced labor camps. As I said via my sources, the evidence for forced labor is very dodgy.

Ajit Singh: "‘Forced labor’ stories on China brought to you by US gov, NATO, arms industry to drive Cold War PR blitz" https://thegrayzone.com/2020/03/26/forced-labor-china-us-nat...

Some people go to prison for being extremists. Some people go to mandatory reeducation for being extremists. Some people are wrongly convicted, with the prosecutor not having done its job well, and that's wrong. But you can't compare mandatory forced reeducation (like a super-boarding school for adults), and instances of lazy prosecutors, to concentration camps; that's a totally different level of crime that's not even in the same ballpark.

You just conjured up the word "holocaust denial". Not sure whether you are implying I am like a holocaust denier. But don't you think that such a serious accusation, requires serious evidence? So far I haven't seen you addressing any of the actual content that my sources discuss.

Again, if you argue whether people should be treated as humanely as possible, then I agree. But you can't brush terrorism and the US involvement in Afghanistan, under a carpet and pretend like they're not relevant and like they're wholly-independent issues. Again: what else is China supposed to do? It's easy to say "choice x is bad" without considering whether there are better choices. Has anybody found a better solution to terrorism? Even France is now talking about things very similar to Chinese reeducation camps.

Do you also denounce the US war on terror as an equally, if not bigger human rights violation? Do you believe the US deserves the same treatment as the one you think China should receive? If you do then I'll believe you are arguing in good faith, because selectively enforcing human rights is how it is weaponized nowadays.