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Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

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Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also how criminal mobs operate, in terms of protection money, extortion, ransom, etc. The underlying economic principle is the same ("gee, sure would be a shame if this expensive thing X were to break..."). Beware of relying on this as the only reason to justify the cost. Hopefully there is some other significant differentiating characteristic or attribute to justify this state of affairs between society and…

This is not a good argument. We are talking about a company providing a service. They might not have invented the vaccine but they are providing the means to bring it from proof of concept into mass production. The commenter seemed to think that this isn't worth money. I argue that you get quite a bang for the buck.

The question is not if it’s valuable, the question is if it’s subsided. Farmers producing corn add some value to the process, but in western countries ~100% of their profits are from government subsidies. This does incentivize them to be more efficient, but it also means their constantly looking for a larger handout.

In the case of farm subsidies it’s grown to the point of being actively unhealthy both in economic terms and the actual root cause of the obesity epidemic. Without sufficient calories you can’t have an obese population due to physics. Medical subsidies have resulted in a host of related problems not just in economic costs, but also in what research gets done and how efficient that is.

The cost of Medical studies in the US has grown wildly out of proportion because their a profit center. This perversely slows down the rate of medical research, even in the case of emergencies like covid 19.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#292
post #116

Good news for US BigPharma Merck holding the Oxford patents, while public funding has paid for its research: https://archive.is/aGUJd

I was under the impression there was an exclusive agreement in place with AstraZeneca but the general terms for access to Oxford's IP was:

https://innovation.ox.ac.uk/technologies-available/technolog...

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#293
post #190
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’ll be the same cycle of open-spike-close and businesses not having enough customers to be viable. That's the part I'm referring to by "not caring" - just ignoring the close orders, especially since "two weeks to slow the spread" has been so completely abandoned.

Ignoring the law doesn’t lead to normal: just more preventable deaths and bankruptcies when businesses burn capital trying to stay open without enough customers to be profitable, even assuming they avoid legal repercussions.

>without enough customers to be profitable

I encourage you to visit one of the no-lockdown states like Florida or South Dakota sometime and see how much of a complete falsehood this is.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#294

OK, someone tell me why this isn't the good news it sounds like

Well, it's still good news, but an injected vaccine may not lead to sterilizing immunity - i.e. vaccinated persons might still be able to transmit the disease: > Without a strong mucosal response, injected vaccines may be less likely to produce so-called sterilizing immunity, a phenomenon in which a pathogen is purged from the body before it’s able to infect cells, Dr. Durbin said. Vaccinated people might be protecte…

There's never been any belief among the scientific community that any of the vaccine candidates would provide sterilizing immunity. That was just a pipe dream.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overly cautious about the herd immunity stuff here. We're not going to eliminate the virus completely. That's a given, we should stop aiming for that. If we get to a point where there's a stable number of daily deaths then we're good. (like we have for literally every single fatal illness.)

> (like we have for literally every single fatal illness) Smallpox. And if you consider within the borders of a given country, a dozen others (polio, measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox).

Which countries have eliminated the latter 4? I would consider an illness "eradicated" if the vaccine is no longer regularly given. At least 10 years ago (when I was in the field), MMR and Chickenpox vaccines were still regularly administered in the US.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that we should reconsider giving (temporary) monopolies to companies that are based public research. I suggest that we should give merek the for profit monopoly, but allow for non profit manufacturing. If another organization wants to make the vaccine but not derive profit from the process, let them. Manufacturing takes time and money to develop. Revenue should pay for those costs. The non-profit gains e…

> The point is that we should reconsider giving (temporary) monopolies to companies that are based public research. Now we can disagree on term length, but, a temporary monopoly to a company is what a patent is defined as and lasts 20 years.

Patents are one tool to promote the progress of science and useful arts. Publicly funded research is a different tool. Usually, patents are based on privately funded research.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#297
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a good argument. We are talking about a company providing a service. They might not have invented the vaccine but they are providing the means to bring it from proof of concept into mass production. The commenter seemed to think that this isn't worth money. I argue that you get quite a bang for the buck.

The question is not if it’s valuable, the question is if it’s subsided. Farmers producing corn add some value to the process, but in western countries ~100% of their profits are from government subsidies. This does incentivize them to be more efficient, but it also means their constantly looking for a larger handout. In the case of farm subsidies it’s grown to the point of being actively unhealthy both in economic te…

citation? That seems very unlikely. US farmers constantly look for greater efficiencies. They are also among the most conservative about land policy i.e. erosion, chemical application etc because it costs them money.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#298

OK, someone tell me why this isn't the good news it sounds like

The bad news is that we can't really have one vaccine candidate released to the general public much before the others, as that will impact the results of other vaccines that are still in Phase 1/2/3.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#299
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is not if it’s valuable, the question is if it’s subsided. Farmers producing corn add some value to the process, but in western countries ~100% of their profits are from government subsidies. This does incentivize them to be more efficient, but it also means their constantly looking for a larger handout. In the case of farm subsidies it’s grown to the point of being actively unhealthy both in economic te…

citation? That seems very unlikely. US farmers constantly look for greater efficiencies. They are also among the most conservative about land policy i.e. erosion, chemical application etc because it costs them money.

Citation for what?

On average your looking at ~90B in net profits from farming, the subsidies however are much harder to track down. Ethanol subsides for example are often excluded as are insurance, tariffs etc.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#300
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not corrupt. It’s money well spent. The benefits to us all are most likely more valuable than anything we’ve spent on vaccine research. Government balance sheets also probably come out ahead on that investment given that the alternative is an economy with a raging pandemic and resulting lower tax base. Then there is the logistical effort of manufacturing the vaccine at the scale and speed required. There are…

Not when it's a monopoly. That means the company gets to exploit the results of the research for their own profit, without any competition to keep prices reasonable. Non-exclusive deals are fine. Exclusive ones are not.

Look, I understand the frustration but they're not going to set this price. This thing is way bigger than this company and even the entire pharmaceutical industry. This is a global crisis.

Many governments have proven that they will put the public's need over these companies need. They've broken patents and pressured companies before and they will obviously do it again.

There are more governments in the world than the American one.

For now speed is of the essence and this it's wonderful news they've set another step.

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