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How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

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Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#291

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

blablabla123 wrote: post #252
yodsanklai wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was amazing what a cultural force this habit seems to have for many Germans. I'm not asking maliciously, but I wonder how Germans reconcile their seemingly environmental awareness with their high CO2 emissions and big cars culture.

German here, I don't think separating trash is necessarily considered an act to help the environment. It's somehow part of the culture and brings additional benefits: easier storage (e.g. you can place an open paper bin in the living room and it won't rot) and recycling containers that are picked up by the city are cheaper than the mixed waste containers. People with gardens can even save more money by maintaining th…

Sure you can, buy tetra-paks instead. Another thing one could do is to separate the packaging from the product in the store after the cashier. They ALL have the bins there, but almost nobody does that. Neither do I, because the packaging actually helps the product survive the short trip in my backpack unharmed :-)

Besides that, didn't you notice how the packaging got more and more flimsy in the last years? Take 500ml Yoghurt for example: very thin white plastic, with recycled carton around it for stability, pre-perforated for easy ripping it off. Even the clear plastic lid on top for protection of the(thin) aluminium foil is missing, intentionally. Which I dislike, because of possible mess when transported in the backpack. Same goes for single use plastic bottles. You can easily crunch them, and the thin wraparound label comes of.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#292

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

MiroF wrote: post #288
LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on where you are. I sometimes wish for more draconion enforcement, like in Singapore for instance. Or something more funny, squads of litter spotters, following the litterers back home, kicking down the door, and dumping the litter there.

Where are you claiming has more littering than beforehand? or is this is just yet another HN complaint about the sidewalks of SF....

Nope. In parts it depends on the weather, if for instance there were loads of people/families in a park, or on the beach/riverfront, or some larger sports/show/music event. But even without that, it seems to me there is more littering in general, compared to a timeframe of say 2004 to 2012.

Speaking from Hamburg, Germany here.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#293

Post by drdeadringer »

irrational wrote: post #170
aimor wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I remember as well. I remember my mother using her own rope net grocery bags as an alternative to the paper ones. I remember in school we switched from single-portion paper milk cartons to square bags of milk that you punctured with a plastic straw. This was sold to us along with a muppet skit explaining how to use the milk bags (the muppets rated it "one thumb up and one thumb down, to cover the straw h…

> what happens to the 40 odd plastic bags I've accumulated? We always used them as garbage can liners. Now that stores no longer have plastic bags we have to buy plastic bags. So instead of reusing the plastic bags we brought our groceries home in, we are buying brand new plastic bags instead. The same number of plastic bags are entering the landfill. The only difference is that now we have to pay for them.

> We always used them as garbage can liners

I started doing this "before it was cool" back in the 1990s. I wasn't aware of other people doing it so I couldn't understand why they weren't. I learned since then and I still do it today. Why use something once when you can at least use it twice?

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#294

Post by drdeadringer »

umvi wrote: post #73
bit_logic wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking about this more, wasn't there a time, maybe late 90s early 2000s when the message was that plastic is more environmental than paper? Something like at the supermarket checkout you should pick plastic over paper bags to save rain forest trees? Is my memory wrong or was this a widespread message at the time?

I remember cashiers asking me "would you like to kill a tree or kill a fish?"

"The tree is already dead. I'll take that one."

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#295

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

throwaway316943 wrote: post #43
yodsanklai wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was amazing what a cultural force this habit seems to have for many Germans. I'm not asking maliciously, but I wonder how Germans reconcile their seemingly environmental awareness with their high CO2 emissions and big cars culture.

Germans take the conservative approach to nature in the literal sense. It’s every bit as part of their culture as cars and beer, perhaps more so. Hunting is an ancient German tradition as well and there is no hunt without woods to hunt in.

HALALI! https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halali_(Jagd)

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#296

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #60
x87678r wrote: post #4

I can't remember where I read it but there was the view that recycling allows people to think they're environmentally responsible when they aren't. eg the typical family has multiple cars, lives in a big suburban house, has heating/ac buys loads of stuff but recycles their cardboard/glass so thinks their environmental impact is small.

In the end the typical western lifestyle has an enormous environmental impact you can't really compensate for, no matter how much you recycle or eat organic food. I think the only way to reduce our impact would be to have way less people world wide but there is no way to change culture that way.

Oh, there is! Just wait and see...

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#297

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

refurb wrote: post #147
Dylan16807 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can microplastics escape landfills, or is that an issue for trash that didn't get into a landfill? > We can't just keep adding and adding to it, we can't cover the planet in landfills of plastic, we aren't putting the "oils" back to where they came from. Why does it matter if it's the same spot? More importantly there's only so much oil and putting it all in landfills would not cover the planet.

Microplastics mostly come from fabric like nylon. Small fibers that can be easily broken off. Your crushed 4L milk jug in a landfill isn't much of a source of microplastics, nor is it much of a threat to the water table (I mean, we use that same plastic for food).

By crushing it you weakened the structure, creating fissures where exactly that happens, and then over time eats into the rest.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#298

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

34679 wrote: post #187
Aunche wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shells and coral also don't decompose and turn into limestone after enough time. Plastic is more toxic, but I can't imagine it being much worse than oil shale when it's compressed. Maybe humanity's legacy in a million years will be a bunch of plastic rocks.

George Carlin: "And if it’s true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new paradigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn’t share our prejudice toward plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic f…

LOL?

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#299

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

imglorp wrote: post #182

They mention decreasing quality when recycling, but I wonder about less-chemical recycling opportunities. For example, composite decking (Trex et al) combines sawdust and resin. It can be used for picnic tables and such. Road surfaces use ground tires now. Someone makes large nesting blocks for low-stress construction instead of concrete. PET can be made into fleece for garments, how about using it for insulation or…

That fleece is one of the major sources of microplastics. By abrasion during wearing and washing.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#300

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

dragontamer wrote: post #22
aidenn0 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plastic films can be recycled in theory, they just can't be put into sorting machines, as they tend to gum up the works. If you had a big box of just PLA films, you could recycle it just like any other hunk of PLA, but getting to the big box of PLA films is not feasible.

Another issue with film is that its too lightweight to be worth the hassle. The economics of recycling is that objects are paid per pound. 1lb of steel is pretty easy to collect. In contrast: 1lb of plastic film, even if its theoretically recyclable, is infeasible to sort and recycle with an economic profit. Aluminum foil is another one: my local recycling does NOT accept Aluminum foil. Aluminum is one of the "best r…

Sardonic idea. Put the prison population to use. Let them sort it. No sorting? No food! kthxbaiii
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