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Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

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Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#291

Post by isoprophlex »

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #167

It's interesting how the industry is shaking up in so many different ways lately. 1. TikTok and WeChat getting banned (This will also have a huge side effect for Apple) 2. Uber and Lyft regulated to classify drivers as employees 3. Influential companies trying to tear down the Apple payment walled garden (Last time it was Hey, but this time it's Fortnite, which is infinitely more formidable). Now the only thing left…

About popcorn... On a smaller scale, I can't wait to read the scathing, cynical take n-gate.com will no doubt have on these HN threads

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#292

Post by [deleted] »

chrisshroba wrote: post #99
shajznnckfke wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and I'd actually be happier if Apple took over more of my relationships. I’m really curious what you mean by this. Which additional transactions do you wish Apple would take a 30% cut on? You DoorDash orders, your rent, your salary?

> Which additional transactions do you wish Apple would take a 30% cut on? That's not what they said. Apple already handles payment processing via Apple Pay for real world goods (Amazon, Food delivery, Wish), and does not take a cut of the transaction. Some people see Apple controlling payments for many companies as monopolistic and overreaching, but some (like the parent poster and myself to a degree) see it as a sa…

[deleted]

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#293

Post by Tehnix »

musicale wrote: post #235
smnrchrds wrote: post #160

Discussion of Apple topics here on HN almost always gets reduced to the argument that Apple is not a monopoly, so what they are doing is OK. I want to present an alternative viewpoint. It's not a monopoly issue, it is an anti-competitive issue. In Canada, we have three major cell carriers. None of them has a monopoly, or anything close to it. None of them has even 50% market share. You can have a 10 GB smartphone pla…

I think this is called tacit collusion. You see something like this with gasoline pricing - major brands will have "competing" stations across the street from each other, but their prices moves in lock step without a race to the bottom. Memory vendors have explicitly colluded in the past, but they really didn't need to - they just needed to copy their competitors' posted pricing. Presumably that is what they do now.…

Actually, that’s not correct about gas stations.

Having worked at one, we would check the prices of the two others on the same road once every hour. These numbers were reported into HQ, and a price adjustment would be made to be lower.

It’s very competitive and people are willing to drive or wait until a different time of day to get a lower price.

EDIT: Maybe I should have said: that’s at least not the case everywhere.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#294

Post by jackson1442 »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #171
Barrin92 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>on HN the monopoly comments are so crazy sometimes what's crazy is harping on a technicality about the word "monopoly" and then to ignore the actual issue that is implied by the criticism, market power. Even two companies aren't a market, if you get hung up about monopoly call it a duopoly. The state of affairs is ridiculous. There should be a thriving market of competing stores, payment systems, operating systems a…

But is that required on each and every platform available on the market? Sure, there should be more platforms available. I'm into that. Personally, I bought an iPhone because of the closed ecosystem. I don't want to have to think about my phone that much, but I want to be able to rely on it. That's what I paid for and that's what I'm getting. From my perspective demanding that the platform be open to any and everythi…

Agree. Other comments raise the point of “what if Windows decided to do this... is it okay because Linux exists?” and the answer is clearly no. I bought an iPhone with the expectation that I would be in a closed ecosystem; if win10 updated to mirror win8 RT where you could only use the windows store, that would obviously be a problem because win10 users purchased a license with the expectation that they could install whatever they wanted on it.

> I don’t want to have to think about my phone that much, but I want to be able to rely on it.

I’m in the exact same boat; I have no interest in sideloading every app that decides to get into a pissing match with Apple (and as Spotify’s hinted at it before, they will certainly be losing my subscription if I need to sideload their app). For every app that has a legitimate reason to sideload (i.e. payments), there will be another app that sideloads to bypass the user-beneficial aspects of the App Store (i.e. Onavo from Facebook).

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#295

Post by close04 »

daveidol wrote: post #122
ecf wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there are other Smartphone platforms with their own store, correct? I don’t know why people feel it’s their undeniable right to be able to provide an app to iOS users.

It's not an "undeniable right" but it's also not like there are a lot of other options. You can say "just move to another platform" or "then make your own platform" but you also have to be a realist. This is why antitrust laws exist - sometimes the market realities make this nearly impossible.

> This is why antitrust laws exist

Anti trust laws (or competition laws) tend to apply to players with an clear control over the market, monopolies that stifle competition. Apple has ~14% of the mobile market, compared to Android's ~86%. I'm curious about how this will play out as it might have an impact in other sectors where smaller players by market share exercise a bit too tight control.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#296

Post by jhatemyjob »

damnyou wrote: post #242
laumars wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Businesses don’t exist to define a moral compass. They exist to make money. Any large and successful company will happily play the “do as I say and not as I do” card as often as they think they’ll get away with it. I’m not saying it’s right but it’s pointless being shocked by the hypocrisy of the logic that businesses are run by.

Businesses are legal fictions. There is no inherent reason shareholders should be the only constituency businesses serve.

Okay sovereign citizen. Have fun living in your fantasy world

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#298

Post by aaomidi »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #290
mamurphy wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you suggesting they had any alternative if they wanted to pursue iPhone customers?

Epic doesn't need to pursue Apple iPhone customers they same way Epic doesn't need to pursue Sony Bravia customers. This is the same as Bungee not needing to pursue Playstation customers to make Halo what it is.

IPhone is a general computing platform so that argument doesn't hold water.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#299

Post by pythonaut_16 »

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #200
naravara wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems ill-advised for Epic, in particular. The fight they're picking will logically end in a regulatory hammer coming down and that hammer is going to hit Epic a lot harder than Apple just because Epic is even more reliant on extracting revenue from being a platform owner than Apple is.

Epic's platform is Unreal Engine. The key difference is Unreal Engine is not the only game engine. You can use another game engine and gain access to the exact same user base . You could certainly argue Epic Games have made anti-competitive plays. However, they're not stupid, they even fund their "competitors" https://gamefromscratch.com/godot-receives-epic-megagrant/ .

The problem isn't that Apple has more of a monopoly than Epic has with Unreal Engine, it's that Apple has a monopoly on a distribution channel to end users.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#300

Post by jedberg »

Here's the short they just released making fun of Apple's 1984 commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqTNO8LTggI

Edit: The youtube comments are hilarious because no one knows what it's a spoof of. For those who don't know: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zfqw8nhUwA

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