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Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

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Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#291

Post by jdbernard »

DanBC wrote: post #176
livre wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Designed to protect your privacy, Mac notebooks have a camera indicator light to let you know when the camera is on. ... The main problem with that isn't that it is possible to disable the LED. The problem is that the LED is like a smoke detector, when it alerts you it's already too late, you are on fire (or your photo/video has already been taken). An indicator LED doesn't protect your privacy, it only tells you w…

The problem with a physical cover is that if the bad guys can install software on your computer that can access the camera without setting off the LED they can also install just about anything they want. At that point nothing on the computer can be trusted.

How is thisa problem with the hardware cover? It's a problem with the security model in general.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#292

Post by nullc »

Spooky23 wrote: post #249
alunchbox wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a reason Zukerberg's laptop has its mic and camera tapped up. It doesn't matter what device you use unless there's a physical switch to disconnect it'll never be safe. Software can ALWAYS have zero days, just because it hasn't been exploited yet doesn't mean it can't be.

Zuckerberg is probably compromised by multiple nation states in some way at any time. It’s a very different threat than most people have.

Most people? Sure.

Most people on hacker news? Unclear.

I think a really large portion of users here would be extremely good attack targets. Developers with privileged access to source code and operations staff with privileged access to systems make up a significant portion of the users here.

Besides: Most people don't accidentally want to show up on a video conference while undressed when they accidentally hit the wrong button in some confusing skeumorphic app specific interface: The LED only warns you after its too late.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#294

Post by avodonosov »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #54
miles wrote: post #23

> "Designed to protect your privacy, Mac notebooks have a camera indicator light to let you know when the camera is on. ... Published Date: July 02, 2020" Perhaps Apple missed these? 2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... 2016: Former NSA emp…

>2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 ... applies only to older Mac notebooks from like 2008 period which are long since obsolete according to Apple's announced support policy. >2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... . ... refers specifically the exploit above. >2016: Former NSA…

it was hacked in the past - that's the point of the above comment

No guarantee it can't be hacked again.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#295

Post by jachee »

happytoexplain wrote: post #140
gtm1260 wrote: post #20

I was very skeptical of the camera covers, but then through conversations with some of my co-workers, I realized that they weren't being used because people were worried about spies secretly turning on the camera. It was 90% of the time just peace of mind that their camera was actually off, instead of having to find the sometimes hard to see options in video chat programs etc.

Exactly this. I use one for these reasons, in descending order of practical concern: 1. I don't want to broadcast myself during a meeting when I'm not prepared, or perhaps leave a meeting open by accident. 2. If a bad actor does access my camera, I won't necessarily notice the indicator light, especially if I'm not actively using the computer at that moment. 3. I don't trust the indicator light to be permanently unha…

As long as you maintain physical possession of your machine, point 3 is moot, at least on Macs.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#296

Post by dasudasu »

mthoms wrote: post #274
dasudasu wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you have to perpetually watch out for the LED indicator to see if it ever randomly turns on for 3 seconds? And what if it does come up unexpectedly? At this point it's too late and you've already been captured. A mechanical cover that can slide on and off the camera seems like much better security.

You don't "have to" do anything. The point is that the hardware has been designed properly. Combined with the OS-level permissions, it should be assurance enough for the majority of use cases. If you need further assurances, then by all means, use a physical cover.

The claim was that single-frame grab attempts are prevented by an indicator that stays on for 3 seconds. First, you do have to be alert for all of these potential 3 seconds windows, and second, it doesn't prevent anything but only tell you that it has already happened.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#298

Post by hanniabu »

dividedbyzero wrote: post #192
hanniabu wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mic-Lock: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KRC3G7R/

This is just for external headsets.

No it's not. It's meant for any port, but this model has it's own port so you don't need to keep plugging and unplugging it. You can leave it in and daisy chain by plugging your headset or speaker into it rather than directly.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#299

Post by CydeWeys »

JadeNB wrote: post #286
cgriswald wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, by the time the indicator is noticed, it may be too late. Even with the LED wired in place and a 'feature' (capacitor or software?) forcing it to stay lit for 3 seconds, the damage may be done. It does, at least, let you know an attack occurred. I really think an LED is barking up the wrong tree. A built-in hardware cover would have the same effect as the LED, and no one would have to trust it, since the cam…

How would you handle the microphone? I don't know any hardware way to make sure my microphone's not hearing me if I can't trust the software.

A physical electrical on/off switch for the microphone (that actually interrupts the wires going to the mic).

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#300

Post by ryanianian »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #289
cgriswald wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, by the time the indicator is noticed, it may be too late. Even with the LED wired in place and a 'feature' (capacitor or software?) forcing it to stay lit for 3 seconds, the damage may be done. It does, at least, let you know an attack occurred. I really think an LED is barking up the wrong tree. A built-in hardware cover would have the same effect as the LED, and no one would have to trust it, since the cam…

Magnetic sliding cover: https://www.amazon.com/SpiShutter-Slim-RoseGold-Magnetic/dp/...

I used one of those (same asin) for a while. Cracked my screen just like TFA says. Thankfully Apple repaired it and looked the other way. I'm guessing they won't be so forgiving now with this article out there.
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