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Re: undefined

#291

Post by abnry »

mattkrause wrote: post #223
abnry wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advil is one of the safest drugs to take, but you can still kill yourself with it.

And yet, my bottle doesn't say "Go crazy! This stuff is really safe!" Instead, it says: "Do not take more than your recommended dose. An Advil overdose can damage your stomach or intestines. Use only the smallest amount of medication needed to get relief from your pain, swelling, or fever."

Yeah, which only establishes that the baseline understanding the common person has when taking drugs is to take the recommended dose. And nowhere was Trump saying "go crazy".

Re: undefined

#292

Post by hnburnsy »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #217
hnburnsy wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't take the drug, they took an aquarium cleaner... http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate >A man has died and his wife is under critical care after the couple, both in their 60s, ingested chloroquine phosphate, an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks. Within thirty minutes of ingestion, the couple experienced immediate effects requiring admittance to a nearby Banner Health…

Apparently chloroquine phosphate is the right drug and it's a synonym for chloroquine the drug. https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-8633/chloroquine-oral/det... Also all the wikipedia references are about chloroquine phosphate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroquine#References Looks like they did take the right drug, but OD'd or something.

Looks like the aquarium version is likely not the same as the pharmaceutical one...

>Keep in mind if you decide to use the tablets, there are some inactive ingredients, which you may have to deal with, e.g., Camauba Wax, Colloidal Silicon Dioxide, Dibasic Calcium Phosphate, Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, Magnesium Stearate, Microcrystalline Cellulose, Polyethylene Glycol, Polysorbate 80, Pregelatinized Starch, Sodium Starch Glycolate, Stearic Acid, and Titanium Dioxide. And as mentioned earlier in this chapter there are occasions where some medicines are not in their pure form (100% pure), i.e., mixed with a substance called a 'carrier,' which should be noted on its label.

https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/406204-chloroquine-ph...

Re: undefined

#293

Post by HarryHirsch »

Alex3917 wrote: post #257
maxerickson wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For treatment of HIV ? Other poster is apparently talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_denialism_in_South_Af...

> For treatment of HIV? For any virus. I didn't say it was safe or effective, I said there is a plausible mechanism of action.

You got that wrong. Nitric oxide is a vasodilator, it relaxes smooth muscles in the blood vessels and lungs to increase blood and air flow. It has nothing to do with fighting coronavirus or any other kind of virus, it's supportive treatment so that the patient doesn't suffocate.

Re: undefined

#294

Post by lawn »

baxtr wrote: post #2

The repeated recommendation to use a drug which has not been properly tested by the president of the most powerful nation on this planet seems inappropriate to me.

In the movie Contagion (2011) there's an influencer promoting an untested medicine during a global pandemic. It was quite scary and upsetting and all too real.

But now we have the president of the United States recommending you to make your own drug cocktail during a global pandemic. If someone had written that in the script it would've been thrown out as too unreal.

Re: undefined

#295

Post by et2o »

pbreit wrote: post #287
et2o wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, this is just not true. The in-vitro results for chloroquine as an antiviral have been positive for many viruses, but it has never worked out in RCTs. Claiming there is good evidence from in-vivo studies is scientifically illiterate. Please post links to well-done RCTs if you believe they exist. There is a reason the WHO is running a 5-arm clinical trial for COVID. Edit: Your response to me literally says “In-V…

There is absolutely evidence of effectiveness against COVID-19 in humans from China, South Korea & France.

Please let me and the CDC know of these well-conducted trials of chloroquine for COVID.

I take it you are not familiar with epidemiology, clinical evaluation of drug efficacy, or medical statistics. That’s fine! No one is saying you need to be. But you shouldn’t be extremely confident of your conclusions when experts are telling you that you’re wrong.

The French chloroquine+azithromycin trial was terrible and no one in the medical world believes it. There’s a reason no respectable journal would publish it. SIX of the people in the C+A arm died and were removed from the analysis, which is absurd. The outcome was viral titers, which were different for different arms. Just maddening.

Re: undefined

#296

Post by eindiran »

refurb wrote: post #246
eindiran wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of drugs with a narrow therapeutic index (NTIs or NTIDs), some of which are available over the counter. Some extremely popular ones: lithium, valproic acid, acetaminophen, almost all anticoagulants (warfarin/heparin), almost all of the -mycin antibiotics (and a lot of other antibiotics), all of the tricylic antidepressants. See this paper for a very interesting discussion of the topic: https://www.nc…

Lithium, valproic acid, anticoagulants and -mycin antibiotics (topical excluded) and all anti-depressants are not available OTC in the US. Acetaminophen has a therapeutic index of close to 8, much better than chloroquine.

I am not really sure why you think I was listing only OTC drugs. Chloroquine does require a prescription in the US, so comparison with other prescription drugs seems entirely reasonable to me.

Two points on the topic of OTC drugs in the US:

1. Unfortunately you can buy Lithium as a supplement in the US. I have seen bottles of it for sale on Amazon.

2. Having seen enough accidental (not to mention intentional) overdoses from Acetaminophen, I wouldn't be so fast to act like the therapeutic index is wide enough to be treated as "safe". Anything with a narrow therapeutic window needs to be weighed carefully before use. I hope your take away from my comment wasn't that I think chloroquine is "safe": merely that there are a lot of drugs with narrow windows, and there are trade-offs associated with their use. I included that paper because it discusses this very explicitly.

Re: undefined

#297

Post by marzell »

redis_mlc wrote: post #108
triceratops wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FDA has not approved it for COVID-19.

Not sure if that's relevant. Once a drug is approved by the FDA for one disease, it can be used off-label for other purposes.

Iodine is approved for treating exposure to radiation. That doesn't mean it's OK to start drinking from a bottle of industrial-use iodine that isn't made for human consumption.

Re: undefined

#298

Post by swebs »

_jal wrote: post #38
npmaile wrote: post #9

Why not link directly to the banner health page? This article seems to be needlessly political given the drop of Trump's name. I'd gladly dive into an article about the president's rhetoric and its effects on public health, but this story is better served by the linked article ( http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate ) which also explains how the couple may have aquired such a dangerous chemical, whic…

"Needlessly?" When the authority figure with the biggest microphone in the country starts promoting off-label drug use in response to a national emergency? Just stop.

>starts promoting off-label drug use

He never did that. Someone above posted a link to his actual tweet. That is a ridiculous conclusion to draw.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/12413672399007785...

Re: undefined

#299

Post by belorn »

dmix wrote: post #274
belorn wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

chloroquine phosphate might be one of many compounds of a cleaning product for aquariums. One other very common part of cleaning products, and extremely toxic, is chlorine. Was this specific cleaning product intended to be used when the fish are still in the tank? Its things like this which is the reason why Sweden has almost banned every cleaning product that has the word alcohol as one of its ingredient, and those…

> if people will look at something like a cleaning product and think "I will drink this" then there is not much options available. Last year I watched as a homeless man squirted hand sanitizer into a cup then drink it. Before a woman yelled at him and started calling 911. He disappeared pretty quickly after that, so not sure what ever happened to him. Fun fact: The hand sanitizer stand he used was one of the ones ins…

Hand sanitizer with alcohol is one such product that does not exist in Swedish stores. There is gels and other similar products that evaporate but they do not actually include any alcohol.

I remember many years ago that there was a campaign to inform the public of this fact as people still continued for a while to ingest those products under the idea that they still had alcohol in them. Many products also had for a while big lables that said "No alcohol". As far as I know the regulation has been quite a success.

Re: undefined

#300

Post by marzell »

mattkrause wrote: post #63
Orcus90482 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quick skim of the article does not show any quote stating you should self medicate. There are quotes misrepresenting which stage of approval it is in.

Verbatim quote from the President: "if things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody." Edit: Yes, I realize what he probably meant . I know how meds work. I still think he should have chosen his wording more carefully.

It's too bad people don't realize you should take medical advice from medical professionals instead of politicians.
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