Live data from Hacker News

New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

techcrunch.com

291–300 of 393 posts

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I hate this take. I get where it's coming from. In times of significant stress, it's important that we all pull together and do work to benefit society as a whole. And part of the way we incentivize that is by calling out people who don't do their part. I get it. But we are already inundated by outrage journalism, cancel culture, and public shaming. The last thing we need is more of that. We've already got enoug…

This is a really naive take in my opinion. Edit: it's naive at best . Sounds more like you don't want to accept that bad shit is happening in the world. This has absolutely fuck-all to do with cancel culture and everything to do with selfish people spreading a dangerous disease. You can make the same argument about seatbelts. The majority of people wear seatbelts because they've been asked to and they understand the…

> Sounds more like you don't want to accept that bad shit is happening in the world.

What you accept and what you choose to spend your precious finite attention on are not the same thing.

If anything, what I suggest is the opposite of what you're saying. I do accept that some small fraction of people will do dumb shit, as they have through time immemorial. And, because I accept that, I feel no need to waste my time and emotional energy reading about it on social media and getting all outraged about it.

> And that's why we need enforcement.

Sure, but what we don't need is every social media site plastering pictures of people not wearing seatbelts with headlines like "Look at this horrid fucker not wearing their seatbelt! How can they be so thoughtless?!"

> Moreover unless you're able to outright deny people medical care for their negligence (which we can't do), unnecessary Coronavirus cases put more burden on everyone.

I fully understand the implications of non-compliance with social distancing measures. I don't agree with people who aren't doing it.

What I am saying is that it is not beneficial to crowd social media with stories of those people. After you read a Reddit thread about some selfish assholes partying up in Miami... then what? What is the action? I'm not going to personally fly to Miami and scold them. Me consuming that story has added nothing of value to my life, nor has it materially addressed the problem in any way.

All it does us make me feel angry and shitty. I've got enough bad feelings floating around because of, you know, the global pandemic. I don't need impotent manufactured outrage on top of that. What I and others need to get through the day are reminders of all of the good that people are doing.

And those same reminders are also a good way to encourage people to do what they're supposed to do. Do you want to live in a world where we teach people who to be by giving them heroes to aspire to, or by having the threat of public shaming and punishment looming over them 24/7?

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a reaction to people not doing it on their own sufficiently enough, like what happened in Italy. Perhaps Washingtonians are taking the recommendations more seriously, so they don't require an official mandate. That decision can't be a light one, and I don't envy those that have to make it.

> Perhaps Washingtonians are taking the recommendations more seriously I doubt that. I'm in a mid sized city in WA and I've seen a notable increase in traffic in the last week. People are leaving their homes more now. Most of the offices are empty so I'm not entirely sure where they're going, but they're going somewhere.

Can confirm. I'm in central Washington, and while restaurants and bars are closed, people are _definitely_ not respecting social distancing guidelines. I've even had people tell me to move closer to other people when standing in line at grocery stores.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#293
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The virus progresses from infection to death in more like 3 weeks, depending on medical care. Any change in infections wouldn't be seen for about that time.

This is accurate. Also, most folks that do go to the Hospital with Covid-19 are staying much longer than people who have pneumonia. That means hospital beds that can't be recycled as quickly to get to the next wave of individuals.

This was apparent from the Chinese data, and sadly discounted by most Western countries.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#294
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For good and for ill, it is Constitutionally problematic to "lock down" an entire state, as it is essentially placing millions of people under arrest, which in the general case is a stupefyingly terrible power for any government to wield. I don't understand why this meme keeps getting repeated, when the power to quarantine has been rather conclusively litigated in the courts.

The power to quarantine individuals and groups of infected people has been well-litigated. But it is a very new thing indeed to tell 7 or 8 million people at a time, around 99% of whom are still expected to be uninfected, that they are now threats, and are under some form of house arrest. This is unprecedented and has never been litigated. New York's quarantine law, in particular, allows you to challenge the quaranti…

The expectation is not that 99% are uninfected.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#295
post #262

It seems highly likely that the US is headed where the whole of Europe is now: over 100,000 positives, over 5,000 deaths. We waited too long for actions like this. It will take a month before we see a drop in cases and deaths

Well seeing as how fatalities from workplace related injuries average about 5,000-6,000 a year, maybe we'll end up ahead. In all seriousness the math around the trade-offs inherent in all these discussions seems oddly absent. About three million people die every year in the U.S., many of those deaths preventable with far less drastic measures than we are taking here, and it doesn't seem like we're having anything lik…

Because people react really badly to the cold-hearted measuring out of human lives, except when it's war.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old people are not the only ones dying.

Data from an Italian study: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-tho... Median age is 80.5. That's actually near the life expectancy of an Italian male. 99% of fatalities were among people with a prior illness. About half of the deaths were people suffering from three or more other illnesses. To put it very bluntly, a lot of the folks dying from COVID-19 were already dying. COVID-19 is the straw t…

The more interesting question is how many of those non-fatlities only survived thanks to access to intensive care and ventilation?

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will be impossible for us to permanently stop the spread with half measures. You're not going to like this, but at this point, no one expects anyone to permanently stop the spread of the virus. It is very contagious, it has a very effective stealth mode, and it is widespread. You should probably expect that over half of the world population will contract this virus. New York's restrictions are primarily to make…

Why would we only expect half the world to get it? My understanding is that everyone needs to be eventually exposed in one way or another, either contracting the virus or getting a vaccine (when they are ready).

Herd Immunity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity) means that everyone doesn't need to get it. The threshold for COVID-19 is estimated to be between 29-75%.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#298
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The power to quarantine individuals and groups of infected people has been well-litigated. But it is a very new thing indeed to tell 7 or 8 million people at a time, around 99% of whom are still expected to be uninfected, that they are now threats, and are under some form of house arrest. This is unprecedented and has never been litigated. New York's quarantine law, in particular, allows you to challenge the quaranti…

The expectation is not that 99% are uninfected.

Do you expect that when the Shelter In Place orders were issued around the Bay Area earlier that there were 70,000 active cases in the Bay Area? That would be a far higher estimate than I've heard and I would love sources which project it in detail.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

South Korea stopped the infection without "full measures."

They acted earlier.

And more competently. They actually managed to make enough tests in time and use them on all known contacts of any infected individual. We're long past the point of that being remotely possible in the US.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#300

It seems highly likely that the US is headed where the whole of Europe is now: over 100,000 positives, over 5,000 deaths. We waited too long for actions like this. It will take a month before we see a drop in cases and deaths

This article has an overlay of known cases in US versus Italy. We're accelerating past Italy now.

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/3/20/21179040/corona...

Post reply on HN