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Haters

paulgraham.com

291–300 of 308 posts

Re: Haters

#291

This essay does not read like an intellectual piece at all. Poorly defined terms, labeling people, non-falsifiable psychoanalysis. And to top it off he calls both labeled groups of people "less than men". All of this setup to deliver the profound advice to just ignore them. (Before people call me a "hater", note that I strictly do not meet the definition, because I like a lot of his essays.)

The pun is that "fanboy" encapsulates "not a man" (boy). Of course the archetypal fanboy or hater is kind of a weakman (if not quite a strawman), but that's the point; it's a model. He's pointing out that in that model, the "boy" is very relevant and indicative.

If he were discussing the word "fangirl", he'd probably say "not a woman" instead, but I think that would result in more flak ("as a mam, who are you to judge if a woman is a real woman or not?").

I feel like a lot of the posts in this thread are missing what he's actually trying to say here.

Re: Haters

#292

absolutely horrible piece. From invoking stereotypes about basement-dwelling losers and manhood to a completely uncritical view about what constitutes hate and what doesn't, to the implicit lambda school context around the article, this reads like apologia for the tech CEO polite society who cannot handle criticism from ordinary people. The article even uses the words famous and successful interchangeably, entertaini…

I think you're interpreting a ton of things which aren't remotely present in this essay or implied by it.

Re: Haters

#293
post #207

The article is about Lambda School, for those who have not been following on Twitter. if you’re a startup CEO and you spend a year relentlessly bragging about your startup publicly you invite scrutiny on yourself. You are practically begging others to ask questions you might not want asked. His chief of staff literally insulted the intelligence of anyone who dared suggest Lambda School was worth less than $100B https…

Thanks for providing the exact link, because I think you completely mischaracterized what he actually said.

I personally agree that this business model and market has potential to be worth $100 billion someday. Lambda School is one of the leaders in that market right now, as far as I know, so they have that potential, too.

Now, will they remain the dominant leaders for long enough for them to actually be worth that? I think it's pretty unlikely; I think that pie is more likely be split by different, future companies. But of course any company executive is going to believe in their company's potential and future growth.

He's just making an inspirational and aspirational comment about the market they're in and their business, like almost every company executive does. He's not insulting anyone's intelligence. I have no idea how well his company in particular is executing that model at the moment (I do see some criticisms of their program), but I think the company's general idea is a good one, in theory. I'd feel the same if they went bankrupt tomorrow - eventually some other company will try it and get it right.

Re: Haters

#294

...haters are not always complete losers... some have some amount of talent. In fact I suspect that a sense of frustrated talent is what drives some people to become haters. I vibe to this. Anyone who has leveraged talent into success in any area knows how much work it is to be successful at anything . It inspires a level of empathy for people who have trod a similar path. The fanboy is so slavishly predictable in hi…

HN is so full of extremely rational men seeking objective truth, they have perfected the art of quickly downvoting any mention of gender and probably found a way to rationalize it.

Re: Haters

#296

Somehow related, for non-US people, do you ever use or heard/read the term "loser" (or direct translation)? My hypothesis is that it's a very American concept, as in I don't remember ever anyone outside the US/Canada use that word (same with "winner"). Like in Europe or South America for ex people would say somebody is a deadbeat or terrible at their job or lazy but not a loser (this may be just in my head).

In Norway, we use "taper" which translates directly to "loser" - but it's not really used to critique ones socioeconomic or professional status.

Generally, when someone is labeled a loser ("he's a f'in loser"), it's more an attack on their moral and ethical character.

If you lie and cheat, you're a loser. If you beat up your wife / girlfriend, you're a loser. If you're an all-around asshole that can't function around people, you're a loser.

I mean, sure, if you're a NEET on welfare, who blows his welfare money on booze, cigs and video games, while chasing 16 year olds, and with no ambition of improving - then you're too going to get labeled a loser, but that's more because of the apparent laziness and dodgy ethical choices.

But lazy or unambitious employed people? No, they're just regular workers. We all pay our taxes, and contribute to our society.

Re: Haters

#297
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you. At the same time, I see this story of “if your life isn't exciting, it's your fault” too often, and I call bullshit. I believe this story is incredibly harmful because it doesn't help 'non-participants’ or 'spectators’, as you call them, understand the limitations of their society, and how this impacts them. One of the things I'd like to do instead is to help show them (and anyone else who is interested i…

We should realize that there is not always a very sharp distinction between a participant and a spectator. We all are sometimes a participant and sometimes are tired and just want to watch TV and be a spectator. Drawing a disctinction between spectator and participant may on occasion be helpful. E.g., a young person might hear this and start wondering by him/herself 'what am I doing on these social media for hours an…

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Re: Haters

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (I like Elon though, for the record). I don't really think of his haters as ideological per se. What kind of ideology do you see in his haters? I also like Elon, but the source of the hate probably comes from two sources. The first is the audaciousness of his general proposal: that we give up technology that worked for a century (oil) and try to build something entirely different. It's based on a bias towards the s…

What about the fact that he paid a shady PI to shake down a cave diver trying to help with the Thai cave rescue? Or regularly sends his troll army after journalists with baseless accusations? Or that he commited securities fraud in plain site? Or that it looks like he bailed his family out at the expense of company shareholders? Or that he burned taxpayers in Buffalo? What about the fact that as the world wakes up to…

> There are legit reasons [Elon] could be disliked.

Yes, there are many legitimate complaints about Elon, some disputed, some not. But the legitimate complaints you describe don't create the haters. What hedge-fund short-seller, or random internet troll, really cares about Hong Kong's civil rights? The same folks that are crying fowl on Elon support far more ruthless enterprises, their complaints aren't coming from a morally sound platform.

The vast majority of hatred towards Elon is what I described: (1) his audaciousness; (2) inflated valuations that don't conform to traditional valuation models.

Sadly, any legitimate criticism is lost in this noise.

Re: Haters

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the fact that he paid a shady PI to shake down a cave diver trying to help with the Thai cave rescue? Or regularly sends his troll army after journalists with baseless accusations? Or that he commited securities fraud in plain site? Or that it looks like he bailed his family out at the expense of company shareholders? Or that he burned taxpayers in Buffalo? What about the fact that as the world wakes up to…

> There are legit reasons [Elon] could be disliked. Yes, there are many legitimate complaints about Elon, some disputed, some not. But the legitimate complaints you describe don't create the haters. What hedge-fund short-seller, or random internet troll, really cares about Hong Kong's civil rights? The same folks that are crying fowl on Elon support far more ruthless enterprises, their complaints aren't coming from a…

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Re: Haters

#300
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe so, but please don't post unsubstantive comments here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

What is "unsubstantive"? Valuations have sky rocketed, frauds are being uncovered slowly, investments are looking shaky. So,the VC world has to start the PR circuit. "Don't listen to the haters, they are unsuccessful losers. We thoughtful people dont mess up" fits right in, no? How someone who lives and works in the tech world can't see the cracks is astonishing. This is how economic cycles work.

Your comment was a dismissive one-liner, the leading genre of unsubstantiveness.

Even your post here is a caricature. People have been saying such things for years. In fact, unless I'm mistaken, you yourself have been repeating such things on this very site for years. Predictability is always unsubstantive, because it adds no new information, and indignant predictability especially so. HN is supposed to be for curious conversation. Reductive hops to angry places—note the word 'simply' in your comment above—are the opposite of that.

The trouble with such comments is not that they're wrong. Maybe you're right about economic cycles, who knows? Maybe the people who you assume can't see things actually see the very same things that you see, who knows? The problem is rather that such comments don't show the reader anything, except how you feel—which could also be interesting, except that you're not talking about it directly.

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