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Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

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Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#291

Post by arczyx »

mb_72 wrote: post #242
blaesus wrote: post #225

I am Chinese living in China. Nationalism is on the rise lately in China, not just for domestic reasons, but also as an reaction to nationalistic moves from "the West" like this one. It's a recurring theme, not just in governmental propaganda, but also in daily conversations, that "the West" would talk about fairness and justice then commit blatant discrimination and double standards. As a founder of a tech company b…

Curious as the way I see it it's very often China who is the 'initiator', eg internment of Muslims, stealing of territory in South China sea, debt-trap diplomacy, and so forth. Presuming that you are aware of these occurrences, do you agree with your government's positions and actions, and - if not - what actions, if any, do you take to make it clear your opposition? The Chinese government is, IMO, massively over sen…

>Presuming that you are aware of these occurrences, do you agree with your government's positions and actions, and - if not - what actions, if any, do you take to make it clear your opposition?

I'm not from China and I disagree with the action of the China's government you listed above. However I wonder why this kind of opinion (aka the Chinese should be responsible for their government) is not commonly held against the USA?

The USA had invaded countries based on false pretext, toppling legitimate governments, and supported dictators all around the world. Why then, this "the Chinese are responsible for their authoritarian government" argument was not commonly held against the citizens of the USA, who supposedly live in democracy and therefore better equipped to actually change the situation?

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#292

Post by mighty_bander »

netok wrote: post #288
mb_72 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious as the way I see it it's very often China who is the 'initiator', eg internment of Muslims, stealing of territory in South China sea, debt-trap diplomacy, and so forth. Presuming that you are aware of these occurrences, do you agree with your government's positions and actions, and - if not - what actions, if any, do you take to make it clear your opposition? The Chinese government is, IMO, massively over sen…

As a chinese, this kind of comment makes me hate the west even more. I have no control over my government. Zero. 0. Do you understand the concept of 0? Thats the amount of influence I have over any government matter. And you people being racist pos because there is nothing I can do about my gov. Wtf do you want?

I think the question is, how much control do you want over your government? Do you want them doing this stuff? I come from a country with a stronger democracy than the US and governments will fall over stuff like human rights violations, if they don't properly punish the perpetrators.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#293

Post by account73466 »

ameshkov wrote: post #285
account73466 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

by staying you fight it already, better be passive - not being insane is already a lot

I have to disagree. Passively staying does not change anything; the fact that they work for this company has not prevented this initiative.

When a wast majority thinks in a way against you, fighting them you will inevitably make mistakes and be triggered to do dumb stuff. Crowd think can make people believe that Chinese and Russians are some sort of zombies. If you stay around and show that you are not a zombie to be eliminated, this is already a lot. I know how it sounds, but don't underestimate crowd dynamics.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#294

Post by coldtea »

mschuster91 wrote: post #203
jakobegger wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I on the other hand think that splitting countries into allies and enemies is stupid. China is a huge country, and excluding a billion people from your company just because their government does questionable things sounds like a pretty bad idea. If you are really concerned about the confidentiality of your data, don't store it unencrypted in some SaaS where every customer service rep has full access to all your data.…

[flagged]

>The first one is flattening China with nuclear weapons (conventional war is impossible to win) which is obviously inacceptable, the second one is totally excluding China from any and all international trade.

The world had had more invasions, interventions, toppling of legitimate governments, etc, from the US than from China. And while the US keeps democracy internally (unlike China) they have supported all kinds of dictators abroad.

So there's that.

The mere fact that you were even considering "flattening China with nuclear weapons" to bring democracy (even to discard it) is telling of the US imperial mindset...

And the same is for the interventionist idea of "totally excluding China from any and all international trade".

Yeah, let's risk internal chaos, power struggles, civil war, famines, etc in a sovereign nation like China, because they don't have a system of government we approve of.

As if intervention to "bring democracy" worked so well in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, and several other places besides, who cares for the million out of their homes, rising fundamentalism, killed, etc, they're not white enough...

When does some countries finally understand the concept of "mind you own effing business"?

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#295

Post by rimliu »

antocv wrote: post #199
rutierut wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are confusing them having something against Russia(gov) with Russians(people). They also clearly state that current employees will not be affected. Reading the motivation behind it and the possible dangers it would pose to their clients. I think it's very reasonable not to continue having sensitive data be available in Rus & Chi. What would you do in this case?

Gitlabs actions affect Russians(people) and not Russia(gov). Their motivation, should they apply it to UK, US, Spain and France, should lead them to forbid having employees from those countries as well. As a Swede, I would not like my gitlab sensitive data to be in the hands of US gov. If you really believe national security agencies do not apply pressure to any tech employees just because they are X citizens of thei…

Maybe Russian people should do something about their government then. Alas, it enjoys massive support.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#296

Post by anoncake »

jakobegger wrote: post #180
burfog wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congratulations on taking a step in the right direction, even if it is a very small step. Nobody else seems to take the threat seriously, somewhat excepting defense contractors of course. I can understand being reluctant to deal with the full extent of the problem. Somebody from China, with a family in China and subject to Chinese law, does not cease to be a security threat by moving to the USA and getting a green ca…

I on the other hand think that splitting countries into allies and enemies is stupid. China is a huge country, and excluding a billion people from your company just because their government does questionable things sounds like a pretty bad idea. If you are really concerned about the confidentiality of your data, don't store it unencrypted in some SaaS where every customer service rep has full access to all your data.…

> China is a huge country, and excluding a billion people from your company just because their government does questionable things sounds like a pretty bad idea.

People have to do what the state they live in and belong to orders them to do. That's part of the point of having a state. So if you can't trust a state you can't trust its people either.

> you are really concerned about the confidentiality of your data, don't store it unencrypted in some SaaS

I don't think dissolving the company is on the table.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#298

Post by calcifer »

rimliu wrote: post #290
vbezhenar wrote: post #265

I've never heard of Russian government using their state powers to take advantage of some developer and break into foreign network. That seems like strange and unethical move. I, personally, won't ever use Gitlab after that move.

Do you imply that actions by the Russian government are always ethical?

What a pointless question. The answer to "Do you imply that actions by the $x government are always ethical?" is always No for all values of $x.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#299

Post by arkitaip »

rossmohax wrote: post #224
490d0aff0ee8 wrote: post #185

It's immoral to discriminate on the basis of fear, prejudice, and rumor. One client can demand that Gitlab get rid of Chinese and Russian nationals today. Tomorrow, a different client can make similar demands - aimed at the nationals of different countries. This makes no sense whatsoever, and will blow out of control quickly. Sanction programs are the established legal frameworks for such things: https://www.treasury…

Director of Compliance raised very similar concerns in the discussion over there, it's funny (not really) to see how our good old friend Paul (CFO) stomps over it again

Gitlab's CFO Paul Machle is becoming a liability to the reputation of the company.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#300

Post by rimliu »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #278
ecmascript wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? For me this is a big reason on why I want to use Gitlab. I am european and I think you're being pretty stupid. You celebrate that the company you work for hire people in Russia rather from where you live. You seem to fail to realize that if all companies in your country would do that you would soon find yourself out of a job since there is always some place cheaper. No one is saying russians aren't knowledgeabl…

Maybe you should read more about "protectionism", "nationalism" and "discrimination" - not just definitions, but how they affect economic.

Does that reading include Russia's plan to create their own internet free of influence from the rotten West?
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