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Open offices are a dead end

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291–300 of 307 posts

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you own noise cancelling headphones? Mine are worth their weight in gold to me (Sony W-something 1000x Mk2).

I can't do 'em, because of the constant pressure in my ears when I have them on.

I hate wearing headphones, so decided I don't need noise-cancelling

That allows me to get on-ear headphones like the Logitech H570e.

It's enough.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in an open office with about 30 people in it and find it unbarable on times. I have some good noise cancelling headphones that help sometimes but I can't wear them for too long a period before they start getting uncomfortable.

Noise cancelling headphones do absolutely nothing when you put a loud talker next to one. They can't absorb speech. The other problem is people trying to do Skype or other conferencing calls while wearing closed-can headphones. Their own speech level rises two notches when they can't hear their own voice. Try it for yourself and see.

Honestly skype et al should probably detect if you're using headphones and turn on direct feedback if you are. It makes not only a stark difference for how loud you speak, but also for how annoying and derailing echo on the connection is.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few reasons I like at least 28 days: You get to truly disconnect/recharge, prevents burnout, I get to spend more time with friends and family, my stress/anxiety and general mental health are improved, I get to _actually_ travel. I could go If I am 45 years old working at a job that is stressful or giving me anxiety or burning me out, I’m doing it wrong. That hold thing I said about “optionality”? If any job is givi…

I am based in the US... I know of dozens of companies where one could take 28 days PTO, get paid handsomely, and not have to solve CS trivia during the interview. Good PTO isn’t the norm, but I feel it should be. If you’re happy spending more of your life working, good for you.

Well, if you’re spending time at a job that is leading to “anxiety”, “stress”, and “burn out”, you’re optimizing for PTO when you should be optimizing for finding a job that doesn’t stress you out while you’re working.

I made a promise to myself that I would never stay at a job more than a month that was stressful. I’ve kept that promise for the latter 10 years of my life.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#294
post #159
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey! I actually have all of the things on your list. But with one catch: I work for a community nonprofit in a small town of 15,000 people in the deep south, and make probably a very small fraction of what you do. I guess life is all about compromise :)

You said "all", but its not really all without "payment up to date with the market" ;). Ps. I would not care so much for payment if I was born 5-10 years earlier. I would already have a big house with nice big garden and few cars. Now to get the same - have to pay 15x as much as my brother who is older than me :) Great times we live in..

The market for my industry (nonprofit admin) is way different than the market for the tech industry, for example.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am based in the US... I know of dozens of companies where one could take 28 days PTO, get paid handsomely, and not have to solve CS trivia during the interview. Good PTO isn’t the norm, but I feel it should be. If you’re happy spending more of your life working, good for you.

Well, if you’re spending time at a job that is leading to “anxiety”, “stress”, and “burn out”, you’re optimizing for PTO when you should be optimizing for finding a job that doesn’t stress you out while you’re working. I made a promise to myself that I would never stay at a job more than a month that was stressful. I’ve kept that promise for the latter 10 years of my life.

> if you’re spending time at a job that is leading to “anxiety”, “stress”, and “burn out”, you’re optimizing for PTO when you should be optimizing for finding a job that doesn’t stress you out while you’re working.

I never suggested my job was any of those things or that I practice “optimizing for PTO”. Far from it.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you’re spending time at a job that is leading to “anxiety”, “stress”, and “burn out”, you’re optimizing for PTO when you should be optimizing for finding a job that doesn’t stress you out while you’re working. I made a promise to myself that I would never stay at a job more than a month that was stressful. I’ve kept that promise for the latter 10 years of my life.

> if you’re spending time at a job that is leading to “anxiety”, “stress”, and “burn out”, you’re optimizing for PTO when you should be optimizing for finding a job that doesn’t stress you out while you’re working. I never suggested my job was any of those things or that I practice “optimizing for PTO”. Far from it.

From the original post...

You get to truly disconnect/recharge, prevents burnout, I get to spend more time with friends and family, my stress/anxiety

At this point in my career, I wouldn’t let a job lead to any of the negatives nor would it stop me from spending time with friends or family.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps I don't have the skills to make such remote discernment as you seem to be able to do. Perhaps I've only had the wrong resources. Or perhaps the projects you're managing have a different sort of complexity and domain knowledge required than the projects I manage. After all, some projects might lend themselves to remote teams than others. Who knows? There are some scenarios (domain knowledge, budget constraints…

> Perhaps I don't have the skills to make such remote discernment as you seem to be able to do. If you're a non-software developer managing software developers, that's (in my experience) a profound organizational issue that simply does not work in any situation, open office or remote. If you lack the skills to actually evaluate the work output by your reports, then you're left with piss-poor proxies that are more noi…

I'm not sure things are as universally true as you're saying. I've been managed by developers, non- developers, and people who haven't written a line of code in 20 years but were once developers. I can't say I've really noticed any quality/effectiveness differences correlated highly with their ability to develop software. And I've been both on-site and full-time remote.

Evaluating ability, progress, and effort can be done as more of a human problem than a technical one. Heck, current or former developers are more prone to overconfidence in their assessments, especially when they're not personally neck-deep in the exact area.

A good people manager can smell a slacker based on a wealth of signals from 1-1 meetings and the overall flow of work. But the strongest signals come from what the manager picks up from your coworkers, who are almost certainly going to be more qualified to evaluate your progress than the manager could be.

People can still slack off and put up a bullshit screen that'll fool their coworkers for a while, because they're not watching for it. That's not their job anyway, that's the manager's job, and they don't need to be able to hand-code an encrypted distributed hashtable to smell a rat.

That said, it depends on who you have. Some developers need oversight from a knowledgeable manager, especially when remote. Some don't. The purpose of management extends well beyond evaluation, which is more of a cure that you'll need inversely proportionately to how well you do prevention (team dynamics etc.)

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#298
post #75

If I could craft the perfect job for me, the one I work at would be it - an intelligent straightforward manager who will speak his mind bluntly and can take it just as well as he can dish it out. He’s mostly concerned with results not whether you kiss his ring. - small company without a lot of bureaucracy -- I have full access to our entire AWS infrastructure - relatively generous PTO - a decent free family health pl…

> Pay is line with the market Presumably pay should / can be lower in a place where you actually want to work for than in a shitty work environment? > up to date with technology and great chances for resume building. What do you mean "up to date with technology"? IMO most "recent" technology is mostly hype and/or vaporware, and as I get more experienced, I see more and more value in old, reliable, well-supported tech…

> Presumably pay should / can be lower in a place where you actually want to work for than in a shitty work environment?

Some people are in it primarily for the pay -- those people will not be willing to take a lower pay rate in exchange for almost anything.

For others (like myself), the pay rate is third or fourth down on the list of what makes a position attractive.

I think that both perspectives are valid -- everyone has their own individual priorities.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s just like saying “I am paid well”. But if you’re not making $300K a year, people on HN act like you’re living in poverty and then you have to explain that $135K+ allows you to buy a nice big new house in the burbs in a good school system as long as you stay away from the west coast. In other words, it details the conversation.

I'm not sure I follow. I can't tell if you're disagreeing or agreeing with me So, to clarify, PTO can range from something like 0 days to 60 days. Salary variance is much larger and the ceiling is higher, so OP not putting a salary number makes sense. It does not, however, make sense to provide no floor for PTO (which the OP did) IMO the floor for PTO should be 28.

> IMO the floor for PTO should be 28.

I have never seen a company (in the US) that offers that amount of PTO without having to have been working for them for a decade or two first.

Re: Open offices are a dead end

#300

I wonder if remote work will become standard.

Not gonna happen. Working in an office is cultural, and as long as the majority of jobs require presence (read: almost every non knowledge-worker job) it won't change. Personally I don't like the idea of remote work anyway - I think we're missing a lot of valuable bandwidth. We're social creatures and no amount of technology will change that. That being said, I think the option should be there for those who disagree…

> We're social creatures

Not all of us. Some of us have limits.

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