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Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

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Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#291

Post by parliament32 »

duxup wrote: post #5

In LA are these shortcuts worth it? I was surprised to find with Google maps more often than not it suggests to just take that busy highway that is crawling alone because ... it really is faster. I've tried to defy google maps ... rarely do I win. Granted google maps is wrong at times. During snowstorms it loves to send me down off streets that haven't yet been plowed or ... worse random county roads you do not want…

Very true. I live in a similarly large city and every time I try to "outsmart" Google Maps it ends up going terribly for me. I've just accepted that Google always knows best -- if it's recommending some dark-red highway it really is the best way to go.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#292

Post by neka »

2_listerine_pls wrote: post #157
neka wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waze doesn't seem to allow you to specify whether you're a trade vehicle or not so it keeps routing trade vehicles into Regents (and the other Royal) Park which they are prohibited from and liable to be fined.

They probably infer your vehicle type from acceleration data

Can't imagine that being of any use in London, nothing moves.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#293

Post by zaroth »

bmsleight_ wrote: post #277
zaroth wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from the ~£30b raised in fuel taxes, there's also the ~£6b raised in vehicle excise taxes. Both of those revenue streams go into a government general fund and are not allocated specifically for road maintenance, because they collect about 3x what is actually spent on highway & road infrastructure each year. [1] In short, the roads & highways are massively profitable. London's buses however, lose nearly ~£1b a y…

"revenue streams go into a government general fund" Yes but not to TfL, who has to fund this via Tube income.

TfL actually received ~£3b in subsidies in 2018. That's compared to total gross income from the LU of £2,799m.

> The total of resource and capital grants receivable by TfL in 2018/19 amounted to £3,016m (2017/18 £2,477m). [1]

Total expenditure on roads of £539m, minus Congestion charges of £230m, means that subsidies received by TfL (covered by fuel duty & VED revenues) exceeded TfL road maintenance costs by £2,707m.

The LU does not subsidize the roads. It's actually the other way around. The net-subsidy (a.k.a government's net loss) on the LU is calculated at 9.7p per person-km, compared to a net-taxation (a.k.a government's net income) of 3.8p per person-km for driving.

[1] - http://content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-annual-report-and-statement-of... (See Page 126)

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#294

Post by someguydave »

intopieces wrote: post #272
someguydave wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standing in way of building roads is also destroying potential economic growth. Benefits come with harms; the question is how to balance them.

How many roads have been expanded in the Bay Area? Not many. How has the economic growth been? Substantial. The future is remote. Unmitigated sprawl is unnecessary and harmful.

The fact that some growth has happened despite a lack of road-building does not disprove that more growth could have happened if more roads were built.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#295

Post by jacques_chester »

matt-attack wrote: post #193
floatingatoll wrote: post #150

It’s disappointing to see LADOT neglecting to use a road management tool already at their disposal to stop Waze’s abuse of their residential zones: No Thru Traffic. Posting NTT signs at entry points into residential neighborhoods and specifying even as little as a $5 fine would make entry for thru routing unlawful, stopping Waze. Whether or not the city enforces these signs would be irrelevant, as long as the traffic…

And to what end? I’m of the firm belief that the good done by Waze far outweighs the cost to the NIMBYs. In LA we have a traffic crisis. Sorry but your government built and tax funded residential street is just as much mine to use as it is yours. I won’t speed through it but I sure as hell have a right to use it as much as the local home owners. The city should not be doing what your suggesting until they’ve solved t…

> I won’t speed through it but I sure as hell have a right to use it as much as the local home owners.

That's the point of No Through Traffic. It removes your "right" to impose your externality on the residents adjacent to previously-quiet street. You are not physically prevented from getting to your destination and are reduced to the path you already took.

> The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

You are the few in this case.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#296

Post by beowulfey »

tidenly wrote: post #49
beowulfey wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s generally accepted that more lanes does not equal less traffic, and can often lead to the opposite effect due to the effect of induced demand [1]. I personally believe providing multiple alternative transport options is more effective but obviously that’s a matter of opinion... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

Serious question but is there a reason more isn't invested in public transport? I've only ever lived in the UK before Tokyo but America is rich enough I don't see why they can't do what those places do.

The major reason seems to be a lack of cultural support. Despite everything, people still largely dislike the idea of public transit. I read a very good article that said to generate interest, transit must preemptively provide better service... its a catch 22

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#297

Post by jacques_chester »

SkyBelow wrote: post #172
floatingatoll wrote: post #150

It’s disappointing to see LADOT neglecting to use a road management tool already at their disposal to stop Waze’s abuse of their residential zones: No Thru Traffic. Posting NTT signs at entry points into residential neighborhoods and specifying even as little as a $5 fine would make entry for thru routing unlawful, stopping Waze. Whether or not the city enforces these signs would be irrelevant, as long as the traffic…

What if Waze labeled these as possibly $5 toll roads? If the penalty to the driver is $5 that is never enforced, what is the penalty to Waze if they just inform users there may be a penalty (and maybe even add the ability for people to record if it is being enforced or not)?

> What if Waze labeled these as possibly $5 toll roads?

As a general rule of thumb, the law looks dimly on naked attempts to subvert it.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#298

Post by lucidguppy »

cannonedhamster wrote: post #274
orthoxerox wrote: post #147

> These thousands of homeowners and renters have arguably been injured by Waze’s and Google’s successful privatization of formerly public streets. That's a... very creative interpetation of what public and private mean. If you don't want your side street to be driven on at 30 mph, then you can't drive on it at 30 mph either. Traffic calming measures are a thing. Make it even more winding, add road bumps, bottlenecks.…

My road is a winding country lane in a small city. The speed limit is 30MPH. Visibility is poor, the street winds and narrows. People have run into houses, but that doesn't stop people from gunning it to 60-70MPH on the small straight sections that exist and throwing their liquor bottles into my yard. People don't care about other people when they get behind the wheel of a vehicle and their aren't enough police to so…

Ask the government to break the road and install a park there.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#299

Post by lostsock »

pfranz wrote: post #266
ambicapter wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does using Waze have to do with ignoring road signage?

I'm pretty confident Waze routes people not by posted speed limits, but by average driving habits and traffic speeds. I do think Waze users are self-selecting. People that are willing to take "short cuts" choose Waze. I often ignore Waze's suggestions and have had people in the car with me comment on the extra turns and backroads. There's a certain type of driver who prefers to mostly "tune out" and take the most dir…

I'd be amazed if this is true. Especially as Waze has a GPS based speedometer built in that goes red if you go over the speed limit.

I image it looks at a combination of speed limit, current traffic and then if the historical data is faster than the speed limit it discards the historical data.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#300

Post by pfranz »

lostsock wrote: post #299
pfranz wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty confident Waze routes people not by posted speed limits, but by average driving habits and traffic speeds. I do think Waze users are self-selecting. People that are willing to take "short cuts" choose Waze. I often ignore Waze's suggestions and have had people in the car with me comment on the extra turns and backroads. There's a certain type of driver who prefers to mostly "tune out" and take the most dir…

I'd be amazed if this is true. Especially as Waze has a GPS based speedometer built in that goes red if you go over the speed limit. I image it looks at a combination of speed limit, current traffic and then if the historical data is faster than the speed limit it discards the historical data.

Just anecdotally I feel like I have to drive fairly aggressively to meet the estimates. I'm quick to disregard Waze because it will often throw me into an awkward intersection where I know taking a route with fewer turns would get me there faster. Waze also doesn't have speed data for many stretches of road. As it got added (and since) I haven't noticed any changes in routing or ETAs. I'd be very curious about an actual answer, but that's why I suspect it doesn't use it.
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