Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts” • Hacker News Board

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#241

Post by PhasmaFelis » Tue, Sep 03, 2019, 3:30 PM UTC

Steve44 wrote: post #113

simplesleeper wrote: post #80

Transport for London Tech Lead here. In London, we have been collaborating with google waze - we provide them with information at the local level. Streets that waze should not use for route finding (e.g. roads with schools) can be blocked for use by Waze. Both local councils and TfL can provide this data. The main difference between Waze and Google Maps is that Waze uses real time traffic data. There are multiple map…

> The main difference between Waze and Google Maps is that Waze uses real time traffic data. Google Maps has real time traffic data and the accuracy is staggering. I occasionally use Google Maps for navigation in the car and it even highlights traffic stationary at traffic lights and temporary road works as I’m approaching. This level or real time detail really amazed me. I’ve not spent any time looking onto how they…

I've seen Google Maps claim that a specific 500-foot stretch had a traffic jam when there were, in fact, no cars on it or anywhere near it besides mine.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#242

Post by nickfromseattle » Tue, Sep 03, 2019, 3:32 PM UTC

Can confirm.

When I compare LA traffic to Seattle traffic, I describe the comparison as they are both bad - but LA is much more active driving. You can always get somewhere quicker by zigging left, then zagging right (usually through a neighborhood) because it's built on a grid, where Seattle is more passive traffic because there are choke points everywhere due to water / bridges / non-grid roads, which means zig zagging is not likely to save much time, or possible at all.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#243

Post by fredophile » Tue, Sep 03, 2019, 3:33 PM UTC

micael_dias wrote: post #186

fredophile wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience with Google Maps is that the accuracy is proportional to how close you are to Mountain View.

It's very accurate in Budapest so I don't think thats true.

In my experience the walking directions are the ones that suffer the most. Here's an example I discovered on my last vacation that still looks like it happens. Try asking Google Maps for walking directions to the Arc de Triomphe in Paris from any point nearby such as the George V metro stop. For anyone unfamiliar with how to get there, there is a pedestrian tunnel from the Champs-Elysees that goes underneath the roundabout and comes out right at the Arc de Triomphe.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#244

Post by someguydave » Tue, Sep 03, 2019, 3:34 PM UTC

intopieces wrote: post #200

devit wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one that finds that using that theory to justify not adding capacity is utterly idiotic? If you add capacity and it ends up being all used up, it just means you didn't add enough and should add even more if possible! Kind of like saying that in a famine it's useless to provide more food because it's going to be eaten all up anyway since some people are no longer dying of famine...

Your counter argument does not account for negative externalities resulting from increase road travel. Have you ever been to LA? 16 lanes of traffic and still clogged. Poorer air quality. Suburbs miles from work. Better yet, have you ever been to China? They are already leaning this lesson of induced demand, as have Singapore. From too-low fuel taxes to too wide roads, driving is far too cheap in the US thanks to the…

Standing in way of building roads is also destroying potential economic growth. Benefits come with harms; the question is how to balance them.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#245

Post by papreclip » Tue, Sep 03, 2019, 3:40 PM UTC

lemmox wrote: post #40

Synaesthesia wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google maps and Apple maps traffic is cross sourced anonymously too

Interesting, so you're suggesting that the Google and Apple navigation apps are also crowd-sourced social networks like Waze? If that's true I wonder why Waze is singled out for these types of articles.

Waze feels more like a social network. You get a little cartoon car avatar to represent you and can see other people's avatars on the map. There is a leveling/experience system for your character. Waze also allows the user to manually share the location of speed traps and red light cameras.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#246

Post by nix0n » Tue, Sep 03, 2019, 3:45 PM UTC

floatingatoll wrote: post #150

It’s disappointing to see LADOT neglecting to use a road management tool already at their disposal to stop Waze’s abuse of their residential zones: No Thru Traffic. Posting NTT signs at entry points into residential neighborhoods and specifying even as little as a $5 fine would make entry for thru routing unlawful, stopping Waze. Whether or not the city enforces these signs would be irrelevant, as long as the traffic…

In Boston, Waze and Google Maps will often suggest routes that are illegal, whether it's an NTT zone, a completely closed road, or no-left-turn violations.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#247

Post by nix0n » Tue, Sep 03, 2019, 3:48 PM UTC

paulcole wrote: post #151

wccrawford wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" they just don't want to be feeling they are making no progress." I think you may have just convinced me to use Waze instead of Google Maps. I'd much rather relieve the stress of driving a bit than save a few minutes of time. Well, actually, I'd rather not drive at all. But seeing as that isn't really an option, I'll settle for making it less stressful.

I’m 36 and have lived in a mix of rural and urban areas of America and I never learned to drive and have never driven a car. Just want to make the point that not driving is really an option, just one that most people look for a way to avoid. It’s all a matter of priorities and as much as most people say they hate driving/traffic, very few actually do anything about it.

Which rural areas have you lived in?

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#248

Post by brewdad » Tue, Sep 03, 2019, 3:53 PM UTC

cameronbrown wrote: post #233

sib wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, but I always assumed that a simple optimization would be one that compared your typical driving speed to posted speed limits on open roads. That is, do you usually drive 5 or 10 miles (kilometers) per hour under or over the limit when you have the choice?

I suppose they could. I just think there's enough driving patterns that can be detected in aggregate, that a network could detect your typical style much better with everyone's data, rather than training just from you.

There must be some training involved on the user level. My route to the freeway can take 1 of 2 parallel roads. The bigger road is theoretically a minute faster but often enough the left turn lane backs up for multiple light cycles. The smaller road is quite consistent in it's timing. A minute slower if the lights work out and a minute faster if you would have to wait.

I prefer the consistent route and now Google almost never tries to send me the "faster" way.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#249

Post by saltminer » Tue, Sep 03, 2019, 3:54 PM UTC

scruple wrote: post #101

saurik wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the whole point of Waze: if you weren't trying to frantically get somewhere as fast as possible, no matter the cost (I mean, this app is even trying to warn you about police cars so you can get a lower risk for constantly speeding...) you would download a more mainstream app.

Okay, but, Google Maps has speedtrap warnings, too, though.

In my experience, they're never accurate. In fact, it's almost laughable how inaccurate they are. Google really expects me to believe that US-1 in NJ is going to have speed traps? A highway where cops regularly do the Jersey Shuffle at 90+ MPH with no emergency to justify doing 25+ over the limit? Yeah right.

It's one thing when it happens once in VA (a state I'm used to seeing lots of speed traps in) and there is no cop, it's another entirely when it happens in a state where the cops are the biggest speeders.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#250

Post by mschuster91 » Tue, Sep 03, 2019, 3:57 PM UTC

tidenly wrote: post #49

beowulfey wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s generally accepted that more lanes does not equal less traffic, and can often lead to the opposite effect due to the effect of induced demand [1]. I personally believe providing multiple alternative transport options is more effective but obviously that’s a matter of opinion... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

Serious question but is there a reason more isn't invested in public transport? I've only ever lived in the UK before Tokyo but America is rich enough I don't see why they can't do what those places do.

Simple: sprawl and ultra low density. Public transport thrives in areas where a single bus stop serves hundreds or more of people, but in rural areas it's cost-prohibitive.