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I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

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Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#291

Post by biztos »

piptastic wrote: post #101

The author basically just had a job for a while. They aren't charging 18K for a web page, they're charging 18K to commute/be there for 7 weeks. A lot of big companies aren't paying for output, they're paying for butts in seats. Why they do this has been discussed somewhat already in these comments.

> they're paying for butts in seats

There's also the case, which IMO is the standard case, that the company is trying to pay for output but it's a long and winding road from the butt in the seat to the output to the sale.

Within that, if you're say a dev manager, and it's really hard to get head count allocated, then it can be totally rational to keep an idle butt in a paid-for seat so you don't lose the seat.

Even if the Mr Idlebutt is terrible at his job you have at least some possibility of replacing him later on, when you have a need for some work to be done and probably wouldn't easily get a new seat allocated for it.

Not only is it nearly impossible to establish a direct relationship between any particular butt-in-seat and your budget, in principle it's probably a good thing to operate with a little excess capacity.

Until the dream of the Fully Fungible Knowledge Worker is achieved, which it won't be, this is a lot more rational than the implied waste would lead you to believe. Of course this doesn't factor in morale impact...

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#292

Post by AchieveLife »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #112
AchieveLife wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I offer a retainer package. Get paid for just being available when needed and work a non-conflicting contract elsewhere.

Do you keep those packages reasonable? Have you ever found yourself with too many retainers being called in at once?

Reasonable is relative to the situation.

No, I learned how to manage my work load (potential and actual) from clients for my physical/mental health.

The motivation is what determines the actions.

I know a guy who founded a software company and started contracting work overseas. He became too confident and over-committed to clients without managing expectations. For a couple of months he looked terrible. Thankfully, he found an escape path and closed the company. He's now employed full time in a dev role.

This path isn't for everyone.

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#293

Post by wallace_f »

__jal wrote: post #259
Bokanovsky wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a classic example of a Veblen good [1]. "Veblen goods are types of luxury goods for which the quantity demanded increases as the price increases, an apparent contradiction of the law of demand, resulting in an upward-sloping demand curve. Some goods become more desirable because of their high prices." The suits are expensive, so they must be good. It's also a status signal to others that you can afford such g…

For anyone interested, I highly recommend _Theory of the Leisure Class_, in which Veblen developed the notion: http://moglen.law.columbia.edu/LCS/theoryleisureclass.pdf

It's worth asking if most of what society is doing is prestige-seeking?

Conspicuous consumption is undeniable when looking at some goods and services, but what about the ordinary, say university?

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#294

Post by gus_massa »

crispyambulance wrote: post #178

My parents had been running their own tailor shop in the 80's, barely making ends meet, pulling in less than $20K a year. It wasn't for lack of business, father was a master tailor trained in Italy and capable of elite bespoke craftsmanship. They had as much business as they could handle. The problem was that they were charging what they thought the work was worth rather than what their customers were willing to pay.…

This reminds me one of my favorite comments of patio11 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4477088

>> Frew, who apprenticed with a Savile Row tailor, can — all by himself, and almost all by hand — create a pattern, cut fabric and expertly construct a suit that, for about $4,000, perfectly molds to its owner’s body. In a city filled with very rich people, he quickly had all the orders he could handle.

> You don't have to be Wall Street to figure out the bleedingly obvious solution to being a starving artist who has so much work they have to turn work away. Raise the prices. Then raise the prices. Then when you're done with that, raise the prices.

> At some point you'll be too expensive for the typical businessman, which will make you absolutely crack for a certain type of person common in New York, thus defeating all efforts at being less busy. So it goes. I guess you will have to raise prices.

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#295

Post by bonoboTP »

noir_lord wrote: post #139
gk1 wrote: post #71

Great illustration of why hourly billing makes no sense, for either side. In this case, as usual, the amount of hours "spent" on the project has little to do with actual value provided. From the contractor's side, he's excited about getting 12x the original quote, instead of realizing he's been severely undercharging for his work and could've been earning 10x or more all this time. I wonder if the author will start c…

One of the first web systems I ever put into production (still in use other than modernization I went 5 years without a bug report which still astounds me) after I jumped from desktop to web I charged £1500 for (it was about 20 hours actual work the rest was spent learning the right way to do things), did the job over 6 weeks. Client let slip they'd been quoted £11,000 for it and 3mths. Next job they asked me to do w…

As a European I wonder how much this whole discussion translates to Europe (and its countries more specifically). American professionals seem to be dealing in ridiculously, obscenely high payments, seen from my personal vantage point. But that's also because money has an enormous role in life there. If you have money you are someone. You are someone to the extent of how much money you have. More generally I wonder how much my perception gets distorted by reading HN regularly.

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#296

Post by notahacker »

whamlastxmas wrote: post #270
notahacker wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The early winners of the UK Apprentice were awarded £100k jobs as a prize, which didn't actually entail doing anything, because the only reason they had been created was as a prize for winning a TV competition. One of them sued for 'constructive dismissal' on the basis she felt that not creating any work for her was an attempt to force her to quit. She lost, presumably on the basis that most people given nothing to d…

To be fair it can hurt your long term prospects to have a do nothing job, especially if it's public knowledge it's a do nothing job. It's an understandable thing to be unhappy about if you were told otherwise.

Hurts your long term prospects a lot more if you sue your employer for not giving you the sort of work or access to the celebrity boss you wanted...

(nobody else said anything about the roles they'd been given being a non-job, although everybody else found something better to do elsewhere after a couple of years. Looking like a smart businessperson on TV is actually incredibly good for career prospects)

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#297

Post by 0xDEFC0DE »

csunbird wrote: post #277
tigroferoce wrote: post #222

At this point it is mandatory to remind us all the story of the forgotten employee. https://sites.google.com/site/forgottenemployee/

Is this real ?

Last I heard it was a story someone wrote and not real.

It's completely believable though and not even that radical.

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#298

Post by 0xDEFC0DE »

mrguyorama wrote: post #191
busterarm wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3x salary is the general advice given to contractors starting out.

$156k is 3x my salary from a few months ago and I'm building out business critical systems, not dreamweaver level websites

Time for a new job mate

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#299

Post by imtringued »

solotronics wrote: post #136
osrec wrote: post #12

You should try working in an investment bank as a contractor. You need to find the right team, but a lot of them are massive collections of people doing virtually nothing but getting paid great daily rates. The trick is to look busy and wrap your team/yourself in a perceived sense of enigma and complexity. If you play your cards right, you can end up in a situation where no one will ask questions as long as you fire…

I have a theory that in most large companies the 80/20 rule applies. 20% of the engineers do 80% of the work.

That doesn't mean the other 80% are useless. They generally work on less important things that are still bringing in more revenue than they cost in salaries.

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#300

Post by misiti3780 »

TecoAndJix wrote: post #192
misiti3780 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i worked for lockheed martin 10 years ago (give or take) on a client site. I was W2 (although I wish i was 1099). Anyways, when the government changed from W -> Obama a lot of the DOD contracts were changing because everyone anticipated the Obama was going to cut defense spending (which he did). The project found out that the DOD was not going to be able to re-fund the project, but we had to continue to the end. I en…

I worked for another large defense contractor auditing government IT systems. To do this, you needed a clearance and auditing certification designed by the gov. Well, they would just go ahead and hire people WHILE the clearance process went through (which can take months) and only schedule certain technology certification classes every few months. There were people sitting at home for 4-6 months getting paid in full…

i have a clearance for my job also, worked in a SCIFF all day ...
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