Sears has another chance to avoid closing down • Hacker News Board

Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#291

Post by ams6110 » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 7:21 PM UTC

alexhutcheson wrote: post #24

Neil Saunders wrote a good Twitter thread last week about how mid-scale US department stores don't execute the basics of retail very well: https://twitter.com/NeilRetail/status/1079785924966445058 Others have pointed out that Target seems to do a much better job with organization, presentation, and flow. Not coincidentally, it seems to be performing much better than legacy department stores that historically targeted…

Target is a step below JCPenny or Sears, IMO. You could get decent dress cloths at either of the former, but the best that Target carries is still pretty bad. I don't think you can buy a suit at Target at all.

Pennys and Sears also used to have salespeople in the clothing department who were actually knowledgeable and able to help with sizing, styles, etc. but that ended sometime in the 1980s I think.

That said, the shopping experience, finding stuff, getting in and out, etc is definitely better at Target, for what they do carry.

Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#292

Post by jiveturkey » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 7:22 PM UTC

xigency wrote: post #96

wombatpm wrote: post #5

Sears had everything. Global supply chain, check. Top notch distribution operation, check. System and infrastructure to take orders and handling billing, check. Name recognition and established customer base, check. They threw it all away, ending catalog operations in 1993 a year before Amazon.com opened in 1994. They owned part of Prodigy in 1984! Yet somehow thought it was a better move to expand into bigger box re…

I thought this as well until I heard a counter-point [0] which was very convincing. The reason Amazon is successful is not because you can shop online (from a catalog) and receive items in the mail. The reason Amazon is successful is because you can do those things and receive your items within two days. Before Prime existed, Amazon had very quick fulfillment, and after Prime two-day it became even better. The Sears…

Obviously (to me), Sears could have easily re-tooled to make Amazon stillborn. But, like Kodak, they were a bit too protective of their own business model to want to compete against themselves. That's why disruption even works.

Google may have a strong position driven by search, but disruption will come for them, too.

Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#293

Post by jm4 » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 7:25 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #110

ArrayList wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never, ever be able to comprehend this. It sickens me to the core.

They really need a clause that’s something like “not to exceed 5% of revenue/market cap/net worth/something else” You burn it into the ground and you get 5% of nothing.

They don't need to because if the creditors really wanted to limit retention bonuses then they would. They see it as an investment that they will get a return on by having key people around to run down the business in an organized way and maximize the value of assets. The bonuses are the only incentive to keep key people around on a sinking ship that needs needs guidance. If it weren't for that anyone remotely good would be among the first out the door so they could get a better job.

Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#294

Post by babygoat » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 7:25 PM UTC

kickopotomus wrote: post #147

Forbo wrote: post #17

Congratulations on driving a company into the ground! Have a golden parachute! https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sears-bankruptcy-court-oks-25-m...

That's not a golden parachute though. Those are retention bonuses being paid to management so that they don't lose their entire staff before they are able to liquidate remaining assets and close properly. Going out of business is a process. It is not some sort of overnight ordeal. Especially not for an organization as large as Sears.

That makes zero sense. How does management getting all that money keep their staff around? They'd use that money to pay the staff if that were true.

Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#295

Post by reaperducer » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 7:26 PM UTC

mark-r wrote: post #160

reaperducer wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of Sears remaining valuable assets, though, is the real estate left over from its standalone stores. That's one of the bones that the creditors are salivating over.

What is it that makes the real estate valuable though? A mall with a big hole in it doesn't seem like a good investment. If Sears couldn't make a go of it it's hard to see how anybody else could.

A mall with a big hole in it doesn't seem like a good investment.

As specified in the comment, not mall locations. Those were rented from mall owners. But Sears had/had many many standalone stores.

Many of those stores were built in urban neighborhoods at a time when city neighborhoods were thriving. Now those properties are gaining value again as more people move into cities.

Also, the Sears Auto Care locations are supposed to be doing well financially, and tend to be located in desirable locations.

Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#296

Post by ams6110 » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 7:26 PM UTC

Zelphyr wrote: post #106

This is sad for such a well-known brand. I have such fond memories of their Wishbook catalog that came out around the holidays every year. I would flip to the toys section and dream. My grandparents even had a years old Wishbook in our toy box at their house that me and my cousins would look at every time we went over there, Christmas or not. But everything dies. It must. It has to in order to clear the way for somet…

There was also the women's lingerie and undergarment section of the catalog, which was as close to porn as you could easily get for a boy in the 1970s.

Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#297

Post by reaperducer » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 7:27 PM UTC

gregknicholson wrote: post #173

ben1040 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And by the early 90s Sears had a century of experience as a catalog fulfillment company and had pretty much become synonymous with the concept.

Not everywhere. In the UK that would be Argos or Littlewoods. I've only heard of Sears in passing on American TV shows.

And in America, nobody's ever heard of Argos or Littlewoods. So what's your point?

Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#298

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 7:29 PM UTC

rashomon wrote: post #141

ArrayList wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never, ever be able to comprehend this. It sickens me to the core.

So the whole mechanism to these bonuses is for the banks/investors to keep the executives around long enough to not lose the institutional knowledge and to keep the company heading in a general direction during the bankruptcy chartering.

[deleted]

Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#299

Post by icelancer » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 7:30 PM UTC

amyjess wrote: post #249

icelancer wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think this is especially relevant here on HN because it shows how startups are required to solve problems. For many problems, a behemoth company has no reason to improve, and a lean startup can rush to a solution faster in many cases. Pretty much. Jurvetson calls it the luxury of being a new entrant. It's very hard to steer the Titanic away from an iceberg.

Yes, first movers in general have a disadvantage. For example, this is part of the reason why Sega's hardware business died. Admittedly, that was only part of it: there was some mismanagement behind Sega's decline too. Actually, you could say the same thing about Sears: the final nail in their coffin wasn't Amazon learning from Sears's lessons but rather Eddie Lampert's deliberately and systematically looting the com…

No question that they operated poorly on top of just being in an eventually bad position for the future. Sears could have innovated or had a separate department like Xerox PARC and others did that kept them alive a long time, but unfortunately fast movers and disruptors will always have that advantage no matter what you do. Hence why FB and others just buy out all the small companies.

Re: Sears has another chance to avoid closing down

#300

Post by simias » Tue, Jan 08, 2019, 7:30 PM UTC

distances wrote: post #287

scrooched_moose wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, I've seen a significant perception shift regarding Amazon over the last year, even among my non-techie friends. When this group of friends starts talking about these things I know it's moving beyond the Hacker News crowd to the general public. It used to be the place where you could get anything for a good price in 2 days and trust the quality. Now the selection is getting iffy in favor of house brands,…

Over here in Europe when I hear something negative about Amazon from non-techie people, it's always about working conditions. I guess the recent Spanish strikes have helped to publicize that more. Some people are thinking of avoiding ordering from Amazon, but I doubt that actually translates to that much of real action yet.

Indeed. Conversely as a Frenchie Prime still offers next-day shipping and works as well as it ever did (that is, pretty well most of the time). It's pretty amusing to me that we seem to have a better deal with Prime on the old continent than on Amazon's home turf.