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Chromium blacklists Nouveau

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Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#291

Post by jammygit »

gnulinux wrote: post #124
gnarbarian wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya. It's too bad their hardware isn't more competitive. I am definitely rooting for AMD to wow us next generation like they did in the CPU market. Things are getting far better for OSS you drivers. If you wanted any 3d acceleration in the past your only choice was the proprietary Nvidia driver or a broken proprietary ATI driver. (The ATI windows drivers were pretty buggy too during this period). Back then the proprie…

AMD GPUs are definitely competitive unless you made a business out of computing things in GPU. For most daily tasks like graphics (games) or even moderate number crunching (OpenCL), AMD GPUs are perfectly usable and high value.

How big is the gap between opencl and cuda right now?

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#292

Post by alexdme »

kakarot wrote: post #35

Meh, I typically use Chrome through a virtual machine with Spice which has broken OpenGL support, so I wasn't getting hardware acceleration anyway. I still get screen tearing in Firefox, for Christ's sake.

There is an easy fix for this: Set layers.acceleration.force-enabled: true in about:config.

I believe this is because Firefox assumes it's the responsibility of the compositor you are running to properly vsync, but if you're not running a compositor you can turn on this option.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#293

Post by jammygit »

jchw wrote: post #199

>We can also just take this, as yet-another nail in the nouveau coffin. I don't understand the dramatics. Nouveau is great but being blacklisted on Chromium is not the biggest issue for it right now imo. A lot of Linux users (myself included) use Firefox anyways, and it's still a default in many operating systems. And you can of course override this. I would place lack of reclocking support much higher than this in t…

Its weird to work on a project to support hardware when the manufacturer actively tries to thwart you with signed firmware. We need more efforts going into open hardware imho

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#294

Post by jammygit »

shmerl wrote: post #191
abrowne wrote: post #15

Doesn't hardware accelerated graphics on Firefox on Linux require modifying a preference? AFAIK you need to go to about:config and enable layers.acceleration.force-enabled. (This is speaking as someone who uses Firefox on Linux as my main browser.) The bug for enabling hardware rendering by default on some systems appears to still be open: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=594876

Yes, Firefox is stuck with blacklisting basically everything. I guess developers didn't revisit drivers situation in the recent times. Just set these in your $HOME/.profile export MOZ_WEBRENDER=1 export MOZ_ACCELERATED=1

Thanks!

Edit - will that work for the snap version BTW?

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#295

Post by dazilcher »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #288
dazilcher wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the day Nvidia releases a driver which implements the required APIs it will work with no changes in my code. How about the day when Nvidia releases a buggy (system-crashing?) implementation of the required APIs? How well will your code work without changes, and which course of action will you take?

I'll not change my code for their sake. I already get enough annoyed Nvidia users who think it's my fault their driver doesn't support GBM, so annoyed Nvidia users who think it's my fault their driver is buggy won't be much different. I'll do what I already tell them: it's Nvidia's problem, report it to them. Of course, if some characteristic of Nvidia's implementation demonstrates previously-unknown bugs in sway (bu…

Your project, your rules - but that attitude doesn't scale well.

Chromium chooses to prioritize users' experience over scoring ideological points. That means attempting to work around known external bugs instead of letting things blow up and sending users to pound sand on some unresponsive third-party mailing list.

I'm not sure how you can fault them for that, especially since pretty much all successful large-scale projects take the same approach -- including the Linux kernel.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#296

Post by apatters »

BurningCycles wrote: post #269
apatters wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually a reasonable position in my opinion, but there are two problems (neither of them is Google or Chromium's fault): 1) Nouveau is buggy and problematic (related more to performance and a lack of support for many features) 2) The Nvidia drivers are buggy and problematic (related more to setup and compatibility with the rest of the system) Both of these problems can be traced back to the same root cause,…

>which is simply that Nvidia refuses to do a good job of supporting Linux in any way. I really dislike the way Nvidia makes it difficult for projects like Nouveau to reverse engineer an open driver, however I don't understand what you mean by poor support for their Linux driver, it's probably the one thing I can't fault them for as it is performing very well and stable. I'm with you on not buying NVidia products thou…

YMMV I suppose. Some people seem to have good experiences with their driver but mine have been terrible. I've used Ubuntu as my daily driver for 7 years now and Nvidia's driver has been the #1 source of crashes and configuration problems (half of the time I can't even get 3d accel working with it turned on, spend hours trying different versions that are reported on some forum to have fixed some problem but they don't, can't figure out why things aren't working, upon upgrading from 16.04 to 18.04 it borked the whole system and I had to switch to Nouveau, this list of Nvidia driver pain goes on forever, this is across multiple installs of Ubuntu).

All my experience has been on laptops and there are lots of reports of Optimus related problems on Linux so there's that. I gave up on the hope of having Optimus actually work years ago. I would like to just be able to enable the latest version of Nvidia's driver and see my laptop start using the discrete gpu. That would be a big step forward from the past 7 years.

FWIW there's Linus' famous Nvidia F-bomb :) "Nvidia has been the single worst company we ever dealt with" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVpOyKCNZYw

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#297

Post by pritambaral »

rzzzt wrote: post #53
cheald wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amdgpu drivers in Linux are fantastic these days. Works out of the box with most hardware. No proprietary binaries needed, other than the firmware blobs. AMD is doing a really solid job of supporting their Linux user base.

AMD drivers have an OS-independent hardware abstraction library at the core and they "only" have to adapt it to different systems: https://github.com/GPUOpen-Drivers/pal

So does nVidia.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#298

Post by shhehebehdh »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #111
shhehebehdh wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously it’s not that Google doesn’t have the resources. They have enough resources to fund whole new OSes. Of course they could fund testing. Chrome team, on the other hand, does not have the resources. Which is to say that this is not the thing they believe is most important to work on at the margin, and given the amount of engineers Google will fund for the project.

If the chrome team doesn't have the resources for testing the most common Linux configurations, it's not a good sign. Linux market share is low but it's a useful signifier.

They have the resources to test that configuration. They just don’t have the resources to fix the driver bugs the tests found.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#299

Post by dingo_bat »

pard68 wrote: post #281
gmueckl wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you download the current Windows ISO image and install that offline, you won't get a proper driver for your nVidia card either. Yet, this is accepted as normal. Some Linux distributions that do not hamper themselves artificially on philosophical grounds offer nvidia binary drivers in their package repositories like they do with every other driver they contain. Your focus on the kernel sources is too narrow. There…

Parent is referring to the fact the Linux drivers are meant to be baked into the kernel and Nvidia doesn't wish to play ball. You can't compare Linux and Windows when it comes to drivers, they have different methods of providing those drivers.

I'm sure Nvidia will be happy to include a binary blob into the kernel. I think it's Linux that refuses to play ball.

Re: Chromium blacklists Nouveau

#300

Post by Dylan16807 »

a11595 wrote: post #289
Dylan16807 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were using "not enough resources" to support the idea of blacklisting. If they meant it as you say, that means they're blanketly blacklisting the most common config despite having the resources to test it, which is even worse.

I'm not sure what is unclear to you here. They do support the idea of blacklisting for every possible unpopular config, despite it possibly working. This is not only common sense, it is what every company does. When you write your software, do you test it on every possible distribution users could use, or just the popular ones? The common distribution was blacklisted not because it was not tested, but because it clea…

...no, "every company" does not blacklist unpopular configs.
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