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I Used to Be Homeless

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Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#291

Post by RobertRoberts »

kakarot wrote: post #284
RobertRoberts wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with anything you are saying. But you aren't hearing what I said, being poor doesn't cause you to commit crimes. If you have been homeless, you know that there are both good and wonderful people that are homeless and rotten crooks. Neither of which adding money to their pocket would change.

The argument isn't about being poor causing someone to commit crimes. That's a complete straw-man. Let's focus. The argument is about discriminatory laws and conditions forcing a percentage of those in poverty to be considered criminals. Specifically, the drug war. That was all my original comment deconstructed. We could extend the moral boundary to stealing food in order to survive provided you don't hurt anyone, bu…

>..a percentage of those in poverty to be considered criminals. Specifically, the drug war.

I knew tons of people that did drugs on the streets (most of them) and none of them went to jail accept those that committed crimes while doing drugs.

Is there statistics somewhere that shows "x number of people are in jail for inhaling while minding their own business"?

The police are always around on the streets, they don't have time to arrest people for just "drugs". I am amazed this is the refrain still going around. Consider how many states have made weed legal now, those same states decriminalized weed decades ago. No jail for weed in a lot of places for a very long time.

If you want to talk about other drugs, and pretend like they don't lead to crimes, bring up the stats, I'd be curious to know.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#292

Post by RobertRoberts »

kakarot wrote: post #283
RobertRoberts wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mother's family was so poor that they ran out of beans to feed 7 kids one winter. They never stole, hurt anyone or broke any laws.

That's great for her, but that doesn't define the moral boundary.

Society decides the moral boundry, and currently stealing is immoral.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#293

Post by RobertRoberts »

jawnv6 wrote: post #260
RobertRoberts wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A vital figure is missing from the article, how many people are actually being housed with that budget? If it's 10k people, that is $16,500 per person (ignoring administrative costs). So that is pretty damn effective budgeting. (roughly) But, it's 1k people that is $165,000 a person, which is piss poor. So just shouting down someone else that is missing a few numbers is pointless without all the numbers. You may end…

I'm sorry, taking a budget for homeless and homeless assistance and dividing by point-in-time count is destined for asinine useless territory no matter what information I lack. 50% of the budget is housing assistance. 10% is eviction prevention. 20% is medical care. So just napkin math and 2/3rds of the 77k/y figure is for folks outside the point-in-time count. His "sentiment" is wholly based in steadfast ignorance o…

A charity group for the "police and fire fighters" calls me up and asks me to donate. I ask a simple question "how is donated money spent?" I ask them to send me info on this to research before I donate and I never get any.

If we can't see how the money is spent (ie, audited by an actual CPA as the ultimate) then we are all guessing as to how it's spent and who ends up with the money in the end.

You are guessing unless you have seen the books. Outrage against uncontrolled and unmonitored spending is appropriate.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#294

Post by amanaplanacanal »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #217
ben509 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once we stop judging addicts as being intrinsically bad people and see it as a mental health issue, we can solve a lot of this problem. I suspect what mental health issues mean to most people is you now have a vaguely scientific explanation of why someone is intrinsically bad.

Mental health issues aren't intrinsic. Like physical health issues, you might be born with them or you might acquire them as a consequence of your environment. But they should be seen in the context of how to cure or manage them. They don't need to be a defining characteristic of who you are. I know we don't like to imply that things about people's personality is "wrong", but if you're unable to be self-sufficient, I…

I agree with you 100%, but you are coming from a more liberal viewpoint.

From a moralistic viewpoint, these people are bad, and should not get help, since it is their own damn fault.

From a more conservative viewpoint comes the moral hazard argument: Some believe that if you help that person then they will never have to deal with their "bad" behavior. And it will encourage other people to engage in the same "bad" behavior so they can get whatever free goodies you are giving away.

People have all these different mental models of homelessness.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#295

Post by amanaplanacanal »

nroets wrote: post #16
josh_p wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "high minimum wage"? Federal minimum wage in the United States is still $7.25 which is not enough for someone to live on, especially in a high cost of living area. I don't understand. https://www.minimum-wage.org/federal

I recently toured for 5 months in the US on my bicycle. My average cost was $30 per day. That included sightseeing, an airline ticket every month and a bus ticket every month. I used Warm Showers and wild camping, so I rarely paid for housing. $7.25 per hour is enough to live on. You just need to work enough hours, do long commutes and be very, very disciplined in all your purchases.

So you were homeless this whole time? It sounds like you are saying you can live on minimum wage if you are willing to be homeless? Do I have that right?

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#296

Post by hithereagain »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #157
jl2718 wrote: post #129

I was homeless in Silicon Valley many years ago. There were a lot of ‘us’. We stayed hidden in the woods, bathed often, and dressed impeccably in public. Some had jobs. Some were grad students. Several couples. There were no drugs, alcohol, beggars, or thieves out there. $5/day was enough. It was hard physically, but very spiritual, financially free, and altogether one of the best times of my life. Today it’s too dan…

This is so on point. I can not stand how little the police does to address the entirely open air drug sales and use, indecent exposure, and plethora of public safety issues (shattered glass bottles, prostitution, trespassing, selling stolen goods like bicycles) because the perpetrators are homeless. I’m not saying punish homelessness, I’m saying enforce existing laws regardless of who the perps are.

In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#297

Post by donclark »

post_break wrote: post #204
smileysteve wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably as much to do with the revolving door as it does with generating income. If you have a home / money, a fine or brief jail time are punishment. If you don't have home / money, you won't pay a fine, your time and lack of freedom won't solve an addiction brought on by being desolate. So, a month later, a cop has wasted hours, a judge has wasted hours, and the "criminal" still can't pay the fine, is still addict…

Sorry I don't understand your comment?

Yeah, it sounds like he was going somewhere - or have a point, but lost it - or thought they finished but didnt. The question is, so what penalty for a homeless person would help them to re-align their values (or help rehabilitate them)?

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#298

Post by kakarot »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #291
kakarot wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument isn't about being poor causing someone to commit crimes. That's a complete straw-man. Let's focus. The argument is about discriminatory laws and conditions forcing a percentage of those in poverty to be considered criminals. Specifically, the drug war. That was all my original comment deconstructed. We could extend the moral boundary to stealing food in order to survive provided you don't hurt anyone, bu…

> ..a percentage of those in poverty to be considered criminals. Specifically, the drug war. I knew tons of people that did drugs on the streets (most of them) and none of them went to jail accept those that committed crimes while doing drugs. Is there statistics somewhere that shows "x number of people are in jail for inhaling while minding their own business"? The police are always around on the streets, they don't…

I got in a car accident, and it turns out the driver had a tiny crumb of marijuana in a booksack, and I got six months jail time for it because the judge was incredibly corrupt and complicit with how the system works.

I watched someone else who got caught trespassing and hunting without tags, caught with several grams of marijuana, his second possession arrest, only get a few hours of community service because he wasn't poor or youthful.

This charge has had an extremely negative impact on my life, and I did nothing to deserve it.

Your understanding of how the world works is so small and broken, you need to work on developing empathy for others caught up in the system and stop assuming that just because they are in it, they deserve it. You have no idea what police are arresting people for outside of your little town, and it's arrogant to assume otherwise. Read that book.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#299

Post by darpa_escapee »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #291
kakarot wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument isn't about being poor causing someone to commit crimes. That's a complete straw-man. Let's focus. The argument is about discriminatory laws and conditions forcing a percentage of those in poverty to be considered criminals. Specifically, the drug war. That was all my original comment deconstructed. We could extend the moral boundary to stealing food in order to survive provided you don't hurt anyone, bu…

> ..a percentage of those in poverty to be considered criminals. Specifically, the drug war. I knew tons of people that did drugs on the streets (most of them) and none of them went to jail accept those that committed crimes while doing drugs. Is there statistics somewhere that shows "x number of people are in jail for inhaling while minding their own business"? The police are always around on the streets, they don't…

> The police are always around on the streets, they don't have time to arrest people for just "drugs"

Meanwhile, my local police blotter is littered with "adolescent charged with drug possession/paraphernalia" reports.

> No jail for weed in a lot of places for a very long time.

There are plenty of fines, and if you can't pay them, you have the option of voluntarily or involuntarily spending time in jail over them.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#300

Post by kakarot »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #292
kakarot wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great for her, but that doesn't define the moral boundary.

Society decides the moral boundry, and currently stealing is immoral.

No. It's all about context. Thinking in such absolutes is a sign of low intelligence and empathy.
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