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Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

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Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#291

Post by pkulak »

djsumdog wrote: post #270
jcoffland wrote: post #99

It's incredible that corporations are allowed to pump out massive quantities of single use plastic and then we blame the consumer for not recycling it. The idea that the solution is to change the habits of billions of people rather than enforce some rules on a few thousand companies is just crazy.

You know that famous Indian crying from litter on the highway campaign? It was funded by the packaging industry. It was part of a propaganda campaign (a.k.a public relations) by packaging company to place the blame on litter and non-reusable packaging on the consumer instead of the industry. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koqNm_TgOZk

Looks exactly like the "Jaywalking" playbook:

https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/the-invention-of-jaywalking-...

EDIT: As an aside, the argument that buying a new car is waste always annoyed me. Maybe if I crushed my old car, but how does changing owners shorten the useable life of a car?

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#292

Post by ars »

ryandrake wrote: post #77
detaro wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany we had rules that shops have to take back packaging, but especially with online shops this just wasn't used enough, so now the shop or manufacturer has to pay a (weight-based) fee for all the packaging they give to consumers. Pretty small though from what I've heard.

I’d be in favor of requiring manufacturers to take back unneeded product packaging, paying for postage if necessary. EDIT: Reading more of this thread, it looks like everyone is suggesting this, so my comment does not add much. So why is this obvious solution not implemented?

Because mailing garbage is a terrible idea. It's worse for the environment that almost all other options.

So is driving your garbage back to the store where you bought something.

The whole process, taken as a whole, just doesn't make any environmental sense.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#294

Post by chiefalchemist »

While the marketers will cry, if more packaging was more standardized then reuse would be easier and ideally less expensive.

The standardization of shipping containers made the movement of goods more effective and less expensive. It's time to do the same for packaging.

As a side note: perhaps less disposable is appropriate at times as well. Those 16.9 oz water bottles are purposely one-and-done. It's 2018. Certainly someone can find a way to make them so they can be reused.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#295

Post by undersuit »

hw wrote: post #241

As much as I hate plastics, I find that it is here to stay. As consumers, what we can do is to reduce the plastics that we use. Re-use plastic bags. Re-use takeout containers (always have a bunch of them in my car). Reduce purchases of food items that are wrapped in plastic (they are mostly processed food anyway). Buy produce that isn't shrink-wrapped. Don't use a straw for drinks. Don't ask for plastic cutlery when…

Someone pitch to Elon their bioreactor that converts plastic to rocket fuel.

I mean wouldn't that be cool?

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#296

Post by crankylinuxuser »

emodendroket wrote: post #174
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Where I used to live the only scrap yard would only accept nonferrous metals and the towns would charge for scrap metal. Washing machines on the side of the road was a routine sight, or it was until a new scrap yard that would accept just about anything metal opened up. edit: I'm struggling to wrap my mind around why this is getting down-voted. I'm providing a real world example of the behavior the person I'm r…

I mean with scrap metal or whatever it's one thing, but your weekly trash? Unless the cost is exorbitant people are probably just going to pay to have the bags for their trash. Like I think in Japan they were about $5; I'm not going to start trucking my fish bones to the local stream to save five bucks.

It all really depends on how much painpoint there is regarding refuse/recycling.

The more rules, fines, restrictions the state implements, the less people will comply. And lack of compliance means stuff is thrown away in others' yards, dumped on the commons, or otherwise hidden to the nature of the trash.

Because of onerousness with local ordnances with regarding paint, many people just end up hiding the containers in dog food bags. I've seen quite a few of those already in the local dumpster.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#297

Post by macintux »

pkulak wrote: post #287
macintux wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this logic applied to trash in the wilderness, and it's maddening. "Don't blame the consumer for leaving trash everywhere, blame the manufacturers for creating non-biodegradable trash." Setting aside that even biodegradable trash is harmful to animals, it's ridiculous to absolve people of basic hygiene requirements. If you can haul it in, you can haul it out.

"Don't leave shit in the forrest" is far easier to understand and enforce, however.

Absolutely

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#298

Post by undersuit »

cube4eva wrote: post #283

The solution is charging people directly for trash pickup which creates more of an individual incentive to focus on product packaging. Also, you could offer incentives for collecting and (cleanly) burning plastic for energy (given its mostly petroleum based). Recycling programs today are a joke and often can’t breakeven

Increasing the burden on the consumers is just going to make individuals more opposed to whatever you're making them do. People already burn and dump trash on their own with the relatively light taxation we levy on them to process their garbage.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#299

Post by billions »

ryandrake wrote: post #73
VWrapper wrote: post #54

-snip, self-censorship for safety-

This is a good point. I’m reminded of a thread from yesterday: [1]. There are tons of places where nobody gives a single crap about waste disposal. The sides of the roads are literal trash heaps. “The West” is not going to solve this global problem by making everyone sort their trash into 10 different bins. It needs to stop at the source: the companies producing all this waste (mostly discarded packaging). 1: https:/…

This. Visit Mumbai and tell one of the hundreds of million people that live on 50 cents a day to use their last ounce of energy to walk a piece of plastic to the trash can. I recycle gladly in California, but am realistic that problems at this scale MUST and WILL be solved by technology. Instead of finger wagging, readers of Hacker News may be the most qualified for building a machine that crawls dumpsites searching for plastic.

Re: Plastic recycling is a problem consumers can't solve

#300

Post by nhoth34ntoein »

xahrepap wrote: post #261
dpkonofa wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a big part of it and it's amazing that they get away with it. Case in point: Blue Apron. Blue Apron positioned itself as one of the more "recycle-friendly" food delivery services to try and fight the stigma against every delivery having bags upon bags of individually wrapped goods by providing recycling services. As a former Blue Apron customer, I loved that I could separate stuff out (hard plastic, soft…

We tried a local alternative to Blue Apron. They hand delivered to our doorstep. It was pretty well done and organized. Packaging didn't seem particularly wasteful to me. Might be worth checking around to see if anyone local is more friendly that way.

We did this as well. They would drop off essentially a gym bag full of food and ice packs on week one. Starting on week 2, you leave the bag, ice packs, and rinsed containers on your porch and they pick it up as they drop off the next batch. It worked great!

They eventually shut down the food part of their business to sell their food business software to other businesses, so we started using Sun Basket. Everything they send is locally recyclable, though I wonder how many people do it. I'm thinking of canceling because they've started including ads for unrelated stuff in their shipments. (This week some meal was "sponsored by" some stupid movie that comes out next week. Ugh.) Other than that, I've been fairly happy with their work.

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