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Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

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Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#291

Post by hackandtrip »

wenc wrote: post #212

It seems that everyone is assuming that the allegations in the article are true, and are commenting based on that assumption. But are they true? Can someone corroborate? p.s. the reason I ask is because things are often more complex than a simple narrative would have you believe, and it's worthwhile thinking about what's actually going on rather than just taking in a narrative without questioning it.

Even if the bottle story could be an hyperbole, the work conditions for manual work are well known to be sub standard. Italian news [0] already got some articles where employers criticize the conditions. Nothing like peeing in a bottle, but the problem remains and all the comments made here are still valid.

[0]: https://it.businessinsider.com/due-dipendenti-amazon-raccont...

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#292

Post by noonespecial »

progval wrote: post #178
noonespecial wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I do already own some of the robots. I have Amazon stock in my 401k. That's what "the people owning the robots" looks like. What you're getting at is that there are many people right now who are too poor (and are going to be too poor) to ever own any part of the robots. This century's great debate is forming up to be whether or not we should give them some anyway even though they can't "earn" it for whatever movi…

> I have Amazon stock in my 401k. It's weird seeing someone writing this in a thread about how Amazon exploits its workers for profits (ie. in part for its shareholders).

Its not lost on me... I first thought "those bastards", then had a flash of insight, checked the breakdown of the biggest mutual fund I'm invested in and realized, I'm one of them.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#293

Post by Clubber »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #111
noonespecial wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I do already own some of the robots. I have Amazon stock in my 401k. That's what "the people owning the robots" looks like. What you're getting at is that there are many people right now who are too poor (and are going to be too poor) to ever own any part of the robots. This century's great debate is forming up to be whether or not we should give them some anyway even though they can't "earn" it for whatever movi…

I think there are some differences between owning stock and owning the machines. Stock gives you abstract control through voting, and the board has much more power than you. When you own the machine, you can physically operate it yourself. It’s like owning a car versus owning stock in Uber - when you own a car you reap the benefits of cheap travel much more directly and in a very different way than getting a dividend…

Yes, shareholder voting can be heavily manipulated just like political voting can. It's between guy A who does what the board wants and guy B who does what the board wants a lot of the time.

Of course if you are a common stock holder you are at the bottom of the barrel as far as value goes. Preferred stock holders get all their money first, and then common share holder get what's left (at least in a liquidation).

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#295

Post by sn41 »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #243
wenc wrote: post #212

It seems that everyone is assuming that the allegations in the article are true, and are commenting based on that assumption. But are they true? Can someone corroborate? p.s. the reason I ask is because things are often more complex than a simple narrative would have you believe, and it's worthwhile thinking about what's actually going on rather than just taking in a narrative without questioning it.

Moreover, Amazon is a global company with 500,000+ employees. Painting the entire company with this brush is poor analysis. If this portrayal is representative of this distribution center, it could be the result of a general manager whose incentive bonuses motivate him/her to be strict about how pickers spend their time and grant strikes even for legitimate medical excuses. Or it could be true that all of Amazon is t…

I suspect it is a pervasive part of Amazon's work culture. They bought Whole Foods, IIRC, and there were news articles about how that went:

http://www.grubstreet.com/2018/02/whole-foods-inventory-syst...

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#296

Post by didibus »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #27
atrexler wrote: post #23

Long-haul truckers have been doing this for decades for the same reason-- they don't have time to pull over and use the restroom-- and no one is upset about that. I'm sure there are many industries, white and blue collar, where similar norms are expressed. Edit to add: I'm not endorsing the practice in any industry at all, just pointing out that its not a unique problem to Amazon. My comment would have been better ph…

wait, you're sure there are many industries, white and blue collar, where workers routinely pee in bottles as a job requirement? Really? In the U.S.? You're pretty sure about this, eh? Many industries? I'd be curious to hear an example of one industry where "white collar" workers routinely pee in bottles as a job requirement, official or unofficial.

Article is about the UK, not the US.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#297

Post by myoung63 »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #47

My fear is that the future of work for most people is not unemployment, but shitty jobs like this. My feeling is that in order to avoid this and prosper, the people need to own the robots that do all the work (Marxism heyy). If robots provide huge productivity gains, then they will provide those gains for their owners. If it’s the big corporations that own them, they will see the gains. But as long as people are trea…

Personally I'm a proponent for basic income, and I think we're moving toward that in a more and more automated society. When we reach a point where more people can't work without high skill levels, the choices are either to let them die, live on welfare, or provide basic income.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#298

Post by xivzgrev »

Amaazon says bathroom breaks are not timed. That is probably true. But that is not what the article is alleging. Rather they need to reach a certain productivity level within a given time period, and using the bathroom counts against that apparently. And if goals are set based on previous employee performance than what if that person also skipped bathroom breaks? Maybe total breaks should be timed over a longer period of time. So if today you need to shit your lungs out that's ok then it averages out with more normal breaks over the next few weeks.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#299

Post by wutbrodo »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #47

My fear is that the future of work for most people is not unemployment, but shitty jobs like this. My feeling is that in order to avoid this and prosper, the people need to own the robots that do all the work (Marxism heyy). If robots provide huge productivity gains, then they will provide those gains for their owners. If it’s the big corporations that own them, they will see the gains. But as long as people are trea…

My baseline intuition is that trying to jam equality into production instead of just doing so explicitly and intentionally doesn't make a lot of sense. To be concrete, I've never understood why (esp in America), we're so obsessed with trying to force social welfare solutions into the labor relationship instead of simply doing so directly, government action.

Your example of collective ownership of capital happens to horsehoe back to not being all that different from my suggestion, but what's the advantage of collective ownership over simply high tax rates (on capital gains, if you like) and redistribution?

The usual argument against something like this (e.g. a UBI) is the psychological effects on those who don't work, but that seems moot for the purposes of this comparison, since the exact same would be true of collective ownership of capital that you have no real-world experience with or connection to.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#300

Post by gimmeDatCheddar »

hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #266
gimmeDatCheddar wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you know what most people DO own? Unnecessary consumer debt that stunts their ability to save and invest. When the average car payment in America is around $500 a month, it's clear evidence that people have a spending problem rather than an income problem. Here's an idea: Teach people not to finance $500 worth of car each month (plus gas, plus insurance, plus maintenance, plus healthcare costs) and suddenly peopl…

Teach people not to finance $500 worth of car each month (plus gas, plus insurance, plus maintenance How? Keep in mind, I drive a car I bought for $1700 cash and I've restored and maintained it with my own hands. Most people don't have the time, knowledge, tools, or space to maintain an older car, so a new car with a warranty is a smart move. New cars are safer and more fuel efficient. They last longer than ever befo…

You can buy excellent cars that will last a long time for far less than $500 a month. $500 a month for much more car than you need is a very poor decision because you can get by with much less and invest the rest.
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