Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

pulse.ng

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 721 posts

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#111

Post by TaylorAlexander »

noonespecial wrote: post #87
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #47

My fear is that the future of work for most people is not unemployment, but shitty jobs like this. My feeling is that in order to avoid this and prosper, the people need to own the robots that do all the work (Marxism heyy). If robots provide huge productivity gains, then they will provide those gains for their owners. If it’s the big corporations that own them, they will see the gains. But as long as people are trea…

But I do already own some of the robots. I have Amazon stock in my 401k. That's what "the people owning the robots" looks like. What you're getting at is that there are many people right now who are too poor (and are going to be too poor) to ever own any part of the robots. This century's great debate is forming up to be whether or not we should give them some anyway even though they can't "earn" it for whatever movi…

I think there are some differences between owning stock and owning the machines. Stock gives you abstract control through voting, and the board has much more power than you. When you own the machine, you can physically operate it yourself. It’s like owning a car versus owning stock in Uber - when you own a car you reap the benefits of cheap travel much more directly and in a very different way than getting a dividend check.

I think stock schemes can work as an abstraction, but only when combined with other bylaws that grant clear powers to shareholders (like a bill of rights). I write a little about that in one of my speculative fiction stories on automated society here:

http://tlalexander.com/corporation/

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#112

Post by dv_dt »

sremani wrote: post #24
notheguyouthink wrote: post #2

Are Amazon's margins razor thin? I'm trying to understand what compels them to be so toxic in their work environment. Especially compared to the people I know who work at Costco, I struggle to understand why Costco treats employees so well, and Amazon treats their employees so poorly. It's really sad, regardless.

Retail in general is thin-margin. That is why you see Amazon try out all sorts of things from cloud to videos, because their core is so thin margin, that any non-core looks more like an opportunity rather than spreading out resources, say in contrast to a Google or Facebook, who have solid cores high margins.

But their pricing hasn't been best-possible for a while now. I've been more and more frequently finding better prices through other venues.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#113

Post by andrewmcwatters »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #47

My fear is that the future of work for most people is not unemployment, but shitty jobs like this. My feeling is that in order to avoid this and prosper, the people need to own the robots that do all the work (Marxism heyy). If robots provide huge productivity gains, then they will provide those gains for their owners. If it’s the big corporations that own them, they will see the gains. But as long as people are trea…

Yeah, yeah, people own the robots, etc. You mean investors who own the shares of the company who own the robots? Because, frankly, I don't see any other model that works as society currently operates.

You'd have to shift to a model that, much like REITs, requires revenue to be distributed to the holders. By which point, you've just created an automation trust fund, and companies start selling ATFs.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#114

Post by TaylorAlexander »

mrfusion wrote: post #100
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #47

My fear is that the future of work for most people is not unemployment, but shitty jobs like this. My feeling is that in order to avoid this and prosper, the people need to own the robots that do all the work (Marxism heyy). If robots provide huge productivity gains, then they will provide those gains for their owners. If it’s the big corporations that own them, they will see the gains. But as long as people are trea…

Or maybe simpler if companies own the robots and people own the companies?

Ultimately, yes. Assuming also the people have control of the companies, rather than a board of directors.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#115

Post by jlebrech »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #47

My fear is that the future of work for most people is not unemployment, but shitty jobs like this. My feeling is that in order to avoid this and prosper, the people need to own the robots that do all the work (Marxism heyy). If robots provide huge productivity gains, then they will provide those gains for their owners. If it’s the big corporations that own them, they will see the gains. But as long as people are trea…

or learn electronics and coding and be the guy/person who fixes the robot.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#116

Post by walshemj »

ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #16
notheguyouthink wrote: post #2

Are Amazon's margins razor thin? I'm trying to understand what compels them to be so toxic in their work environment. Especially compared to the people I know who work at Costco, I struggle to understand why Costco treats employees so well, and Amazon treats their employees so poorly. It's really sad, regardless.

Would be interesting to know whether it's a local problem or happens in other Amazon warehouses too. I'm fortunate enough to have worked in the USA, Canada and the UK and out of the three, I've found culturally, coworkers in the UK seem to be more afraid of the what the boss will say all the time and there's a lot of micro management going on. This is just anecdotal of course on my experiences and I would like to kno…

They seem to (from overhearing covos on the train that serves the warehouse near MK) employ a lot of eu migrants from the poor countries that are used to abusive management an don't know their rights.

It was also implied that there had been capture of first level supervisory positions who played favorites.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#117

Post by potatolicious »

baby wrote: post #105
noonespecial wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I do already own some of the robots. I have Amazon stock in my 401k. That's what "the people owning the robots" looks like. What you're getting at is that there are many people right now who are too poor (and are going to be too poor) to ever own any part of the robots. This century's great debate is forming up to be whether or not we should give them some anyway even though they can't "earn" it for whatever movi…

In a few centuries students in history classes will look back and try to understand why we let our people die in the streets.

I too am afraid that our future descendants will look at our actions with disdain.

But I am even more afraid that our future descendants will live in the same rampant callousness and cruelty that we've created and perpetuated.

If they live in a better world than ours and look at us like savages, then I think overall things will have gone pretty well.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#118

Post by dsfyu404ed »

atrexler wrote: post #23

Long-haul truckers have been doing this for decades for the same reason-- they don't have time to pull over and use the restroom-- and no one is upset about that. I'm sure there are many industries, white and blue collar, where similar norms are expressed. Edit to add: I'm not endorsing the practice in any industry at all, just pointing out that its not a unique problem to Amazon. My comment would have been better ph…

>they don't have time to pull over and use the restroom

Before E-logs you could could cook the books and have time to absorb bathroom breaks and paperwork delays.

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#119

Post by krisdol »

creep wrote: post #89
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #47

My fear is that the future of work for most people is not unemployment, but shitty jobs like this. My feeling is that in order to avoid this and prosper, the people need to own the robots that do all the work (Marxism heyy). If robots provide huge productivity gains, then they will provide those gains for their owners. If it’s the big corporations that own them, they will see the gains. But as long as people are trea…

Sounds interesting, but also like a lot of bureaucracy. What happens when the people want to change the way the robots are operating? What if the robots don't do exactly what they're told? Who manages manufacturing robots vs transportation robots vs communications robots? Would the people have to elect representatives to deal with the robots?

If you replace "robots" with "employees", does that make your questions any easier to answer?

Re: Amazon warehouse workers 'peed in bottles' fearing punishment for taking breaks

#120

Post by arielweisberg »

noonespecial wrote: post #87
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #47

My fear is that the future of work for most people is not unemployment, but shitty jobs like this. My feeling is that in order to avoid this and prosper, the people need to own the robots that do all the work (Marxism heyy). If robots provide huge productivity gains, then they will provide those gains for their owners. If it’s the big corporations that own them, they will see the gains. But as long as people are trea…

But I do already own some of the robots. I have Amazon stock in my 401k. That's what "the people owning the robots" looks like. What you're getting at is that there are many people right now who are too poor (and are going to be too poor) to ever own any part of the robots. This century's great debate is forming up to be whether or not we should give them some anyway even though they can't "earn" it for whatever movi…

That assumes the profits go to the shareholders. I don't think that's a safe assumption and I don't think that will necessarily persist.
Post reply on HN