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YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

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Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#291
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason I think people are talking about repealing the 2nd is because the NRA won't budge an inch. Extremism begets extremism. If people can't get sensible gun regulation, extreme gun regulation starts to seem more attractive. Conservatism, I though, was all about making slow and slight tweaks to society, rather than radical changes. But refusal to allow even the slightest evolution or deviation on some issue, lik…

The "sensible gun regulation" isn't, that's the thing. Indeed, the people calling for it are so proud of being so ignorant about guns and gun laws that they often can't even accurately say what class of guns they want banned, they've coined a term - "gunsplaining" - to mock those who point out when they don't know what they're talking about. Features of the current US pro-gun-control movement include the notion that…

You're mocking the intelligence of gun control supporters and doubting their sincerity and credibility. As you seem to be knowledgeable about the subject, and seem to believe that only persons such as yourself are qualified to have an opinion on the matter, what would you consider to be actually sensible gun regulation?

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#292
post #284

"Reddit and Youtube are shooting themselves in the foot!" some would say. "I'm moving to this other site!" those directly affected say. And the rest of the users and the sites say "bye! Good riddance!", thinking that they have just surgically removed a small portion of the site. But they are wrong, the effect will be huge and far reaching and here's why: What Reddit and those cheering the migration of gun and sex ent…

?? Are you somehow suggesting that people involved in gun sales or drug sales on reddit are somehow meme generators keeping the culture alive?? People made the same arguments when /r/fatpeoplehate was banned and /r/niggers was banned, and before that when /r/jailbait was banned. Nothing changed except the site got a bit better because a bunch of the assholes migrated to voat or remade those subreddits under different…

Yes, I am saying that gun enthusiasts, the millions of normal Americans and people around the world who like guns, or even craft beer, or historical re-enactment, also like to tell jokes. They do not go to reddit to only talk about guns, but to other subreddits. It's quite easy to understand.

I am not saying they are the only people keeping the site alive, that would be silly. I'm saying that people that like to tell jokes will make the alternatives they go to better and more attractive, and make Reddit a bit less attractive.

Your examples of previous banning was about toxic subreddits where the main focus was on toxic "jokes". I'd agree with you, toxic joke tellers are probably going to always joke toxicly. But a gun enthusiast, a craft beer lover, a historical re-enactment, an adult porn star, they are not primarily makers of toxic jokes. I hope you can see the difference here.

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is usually called the "Please think of the children" argument (or women in this case). I imagine the person you are replying to is not a closet rape supporter, but they likely think that allowing every adult member of a population to arm themselves is not the ideal solution. I imagine you disagree with that view, but the way you have expressed yourself is the start of an emotional flame-war, not a disc…

Arguments against guns are almost universally a think of the children argument though.

It is usually encouraged on HN to argue with / respond to the points made by the person you in discussion with, not the vocal minority/majority out in the world who hold a different view.

Otherwise you get two people talking past each other. The fact that there are people who are fans of gun control AND express themselves immaturely with vapid politicised statements appealing to emotion doesn't excuse the almost trollish characteristic of the "do you think women should be defenseless against rapists" above.

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've deleted both my YouTube and reddit accounts. I've been trying to de-Google my life, this will probably accelerate that. Just need a proper mobile Linux device and I can finally dump Android.

Going lineage OS with F-Droid for your APP needs has been quite the positive experience for me. Everything has a nice FLOSS alternative, that is sometimes better than the Google-App equivalent and the newly revamped F-Droid works great. If you still need something from the playstore there is the "yalp-store" app, which grabs apk with a fake account from google.

Lineage is a good alternative, there's also Sailfish as a fuller Linux system. These have similar advantages and disadvantages, the major issues are the drivers are not great in particular for cameras, and the reliance of some apps on Play Services (which of course has been carefully calculated by Google for that purpose).

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#295

This is very dismaying to see I have used Youtube in the past for seeing how to install gun accessories, put guns together, how to fix malfunctions, etc. Watching those videos has made me a more knowledgeable, and hence more responsible gun owner. This is an especially large blow for people who are part of niche communities, like reloading ammo for 100+ year old rifles. A lot of historical content will be lost. The n…

>The new youtube rules will also get rid of entertainment channels like Hickock45 and Demolition Ranch (the proceeds of which help subsidize the creator's other channel, Vet Ranch)

Also, channels like Forgotten Weapons which are non-political and just provide really great information on old or obscure guns.

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offtopic: What legal mechanism do you propose to use to ban the private ownership of firearms in the United States of America? Edit: Additionally, what do you want done about all of the currently legal guns that exist in this country when this ban goes into effect?

I would like it to be illegal for people to own guns. Those who violate the law (as the ban would be in the form of a law) would go to jail. Current owners would turn in their guns and those guns would be destroyed. The 2nd Amendment is oddly worded. It does speak of a well regulated militia. I'm not a lawyer or a legal expert but it seems to me that banning the ownership of guns except for members of the militia sho…

"banning the ownership of guns except for members of the militia "

The definition of militia is here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/246

There are two "militias", the national guard, and the unorganized militia...

When I read the Federalist papers, I interrupted it as Hamilton and Jay were trying to describe a defense strategy of the country, which included internal, and external threats. When I read it, I got the feeling they both were very much against the state of affairs we have today. They advocated for a small professional army, and a large reserve of men if needed.

I personally feel this is the right model, today our DoD budget is 600 BILLION dollars! Every social service other first world countries have, we can't afford. That is directly a result of our military spending. If we spent less getting into conflicts we probably don't need to be involved in (I still do not understand what the national interest in Afghanistan and Iraq is), and we had a very large reserve of men. We could maintain the defense readiness we have today, but also have publically funded education, healthcare etc.

I do concede that the requirements of training are much different though. A model like Switzerland's militia might be preferable. In their model, each citizen has 1 year of conscripted service. It's spread out a bit but is an adequate amount of time to train someone properly. It also provides a method for "weeding" out individuals who should not be a part of this reserve. Their gun laws are also far more strict. Gun ownership is more of a privilege there. I don't know how much of that we can do here, but I think it's a good example of how to build a militia in modern times.

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#297

I understand the concern here on HN. However, what do we propose to do? At the end of the day, these are private companies and they can enforce whatever arbitrary guidelines they want within the laws of the countries they operate in. E.g. if you were president Trump, would you do anything about it? Genuinely curious.

> However, what do we propose to do? 1. Ideally, we don't allow corporations to control so much of our communications. 2. Barring 1, we should set the expectation that communication platforms should protect their users' freedom of speech, with laws to enforce this. > At the end of the day, these are private companies and they can enforce whatever arbitrary guidelines they want within the laws of the countries they op…

> Ideally, we don't allow corporations to control so much of our communications.

What laws would you propose to actually implement this?

I like free speech a lot as well, but it seems that boundaries get a bit fuzzy here. E.g. if you were to run your own forum like HN, don't you think you should be allowed to ban material from, say, KKK supporters?

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offtopic: What legal mechanism do you propose to use to ban the private ownership of firearms in the United States of America? Edit: Additionally, what do you want done about all of the currently legal guns that exist in this country when this ban goes into effect?

I would like it to be illegal for people to own guns. Those who violate the law (as the ban would be in the form of a law) would go to jail. Current owners would turn in their guns and those guns would be destroyed. The 2nd Amendment is oddly worded. It does speak of a well regulated militia. I'm not a lawyer or a legal expert but it seems to me that banning the ownership of guns except for members of the militia sho…

The original question was about your legal mechanism for implementation of a ban on private ownership on weapons. What change would you make to existing laws to enact this ban?

Additionally, what is your plan to deal with the potential for violent, armed resistance to this ban, and in what facilities would you put all of the violators of this ban?

Re: YouTube and Reddit roll out new restrictions including channel and sub bans

#300
post #202

There they go again, the big nanny corporations. They are part of the social fabric of our society. The same rules of freedom of speech should apply there. Saying that they have a right to censor their platform is OK, if this was the case from the outset. As it is, once these platforms were free and unrestricted. It's only after they grew big, are became protected by network effects that allows them to do stuff like…

>The same rules of freedom of speech should apply there.

If you want freedom of speech to apply in privately controlled media, you would have to compel them to distribute content they do not agree with, which is itself a violation of freedom of speech.

And this is the problem with a simplistic idea like "Freedom of Speech". It is not possible for everyone to hear everyone else's point of view, so some speech will always be restricted. Therefore, our society inevitably makes decisions about which speech to amplify and which to silence, and just because that decision is not being made directly by government, does not mean it is not being made.

In practice when people complain about censorship, what they mean is that these implicit decisions are not being made in a way that they like. And in saying this, I'm not trying to imply that their criticisms are wrong, or that they're being disingenuous or malicious in trying to change those decisions. I'm saying this to reframe the debate, because framing it as if access to speech can only be controlled by intentional malicious restriction prevents us from questioning the ways in which society already controls access to speech.

The most common way speech is restricted is economic. The rich can afford to amplify their speech, and the poor cannot. We have historically accepted this without question as an economic reality, but then the rise of social media gave us a glimpse of a world where economic restrictions are not as big a factor, and so when these restrictions start to re-assert themselves we question them.

People call it "censorship" and demand "free speech", because this is the most pervasive set of ideas we have to understand this dissonance, but the reality is we are always censored, and speech is never truly free, and unless we accept that, we will not be able to ask real questions about what kind of societal discourse we truly value.

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