Earlier quoted context omitted.
We know what is different but we refuse to address it. I understand that many people feel the second amendment is very important, but we at least have to have the intellectual honesty to admit that shootings like this are a consequence of it. We might decide we are willing, as a society, to accept that risk, but we can’t pretend it isn’t there.
Do we know what it is? You seem quite confident. Americans have 101 guns per 100 citizens. Finns have 34.2 guns per 100 citizens. Icelanders have 30.3 guns per 100 citizens. America has 110x the murder rate than Finland has. America has 13,000x the murder rate Iceland has. Whatever the cause is, 3x the guns ≠ 110x the murder rate (or 13,000x the murder rate). A more interesting comparison might be to examine countrie…
LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
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Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#292I wonder how it can be fixed. Some things seem to be going in the right direction, for example gun ownership is on the decline (from 47 % of households owning gun in 1971 to 31% in 2014 http://www.norc.org/PDFs/GSS%20Reports/GSS_Trends%20in%20Gun... ) . However the number of guns keeps increasing, so it looks like some people are stockpiling. Nonetheless if gun ownership continues to decrease they will be marginalized.
At the same time, police is very violent and its militarization is a sad, messed up, joke.
And violent deaths in the USA are still an order of magnitude higher than those of other developed countries.
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#293Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
We know what is different but we refuse to address it. I understand that many people feel the second amendment is very important, but we at least have to have the intellectual honesty to admit that shootings like this are a consequence of it. We might decide we are willing, as a society, to accept that risk, but we can’t pretend it isn’t there.
I don't see much of a plausible argument that lack of gun control makes American police more trigger happy. And I say that as someone with no particular stake in gun rights. America doesn't have that high a murder rate, it just has a high rate of killings by cops. Lack of training, poor training and overall problematic police-culture seem to be the main offenders.
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Problem is that they typically lack the proper training and the discipline required, and act too hastily. What you are asking them to be is super human, indeed even better than a computer could in the same situation. No amount of "proper training" or "discipline" can prepare you to make perfect decisions based on imperfect data (your sensory perception, plus all the data that isn't present such as must be read from…
I like how the police feel threatened and have a hard job is more important than the fact a completely innocent person died .
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Just a side note, because you’re from Norway, that may be surprising to some. The US is #1 with 1.01 guns per capita, and Norway is #9 with .31 guns per capita. Being from #10 on that list, the type, quality and "outings" of guns matters a lot. In France, "owned guns" are either sport or hunting weapons, seeing one outside of hunting season basically does not happen and they're regulated: * single-shot (per barrel)…
In Norway, reservists can keep their assault rifles home. Once a guy in our neighbourhood decided to clean his AG-3 on the porch, triggering armed police response in the area. This being Norway of course, no shots were fired and the situation cleared up. Otherwise, you can buy pretty much anything non-automatic when you have a hunting or sports license. Neither is hard to obtain. The circulation is regulated but stil…
Additionally, it was no secret who was a member of the home guard, so there were numerous cases of homes being burglarised for the AG3 stored there; the weapon was then used for further crimes, like bank robberies.
Now, weapons are stored at the home guard's places of assembly in case of mobilization.
Also, while I agree that it is no problem obtaining a hunting rifle or a shotgun (passing the test isn't THAT hard), a handgun is more complicated:
a) You need to have a clean criminal record, and be more than 21 years of age. Also, the local police must approve - say, it is (theoretically, at least) possible to be turned down even with no record if the local police do not think you are suited to own a weapon - say, if you regularly binge drink, are known locally as a trouble-maker or whatever.
b) You must have completed a safety course at an approved gun club. Typically 3-4 nights, intended to learn you how to handle the gun safely, know and follow shooting range regulations &c.
c) You must be an active member of an approved gun club, and must have been so for at least six months prior to applying for a purchase permit. Active basically means turning up at club events and shooting with one of the club's weapons until you have your own.
d) Yout licence may be revoked if you no longer have a need to own a weapon - say, if you stop showing up at club nights and let your membership lapse. Also, any problems with the law? Better take a good, hard look at that licence, because it will be revoked as soon as they get around to it.
e) You normally only get a permit for one weapon, unless you can lay credible claim to being a collector (in which case even more training and vetting is mandatory).
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This process is designed to have a weapon be discharged. Unfortunately, as a US civilian you need to be smart about de-escalating encounters with underpaid rage-monster cops with something close to legal immunity. Your goal should be to avoid injury or death until you can get to a lawyer.
If you are a cop in this situation, not the lead officer, a grunt among other grunts. You are told the basic situation is that shots have been fired and women and children are in danger...as are you and your team. There is an ARMED individual in the house. Your police training also tells you there is a split second between you and one of your team getting killed as well. Your team members are also husbands and father…
Really?
A growing portion of total gun deaths are police shootings. ‘Serve and protect’ doesn’t seem to extend much further than themselves.
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The way things are going if a SWAT team rolled up to my house ( I know this is going to sound silly). I'd call 911 and have them on speaker phone coaching me through it. Who said you're going to get any chance to call anybody? They could just as easily break into your house shouting and pointing guns...
Of course there are scenarios out of our control. In this one particularly the victim walked out of the house and then was shot after he slipped up on one of the commands. Not to blame the victim, but his mistake lead to their over reaction. My point is even us citizens aren't experienced these situations and some guidance could help.
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
I get where you're coming from, but the person who called it in named themselves SWauTistic and makes a hobby of this behavior.
Yes, the guy is definitely guilty of some degree of murder, because he knew what he was doing. However, I'm contrasting it with my country, where calling in such a situation would be very unlikely to get someone killed, because the police are much more reticent to shoot people. In such a case, the caller could be guilty of wasting resources, but not of murder. The only difference is the handling of each situation by…