Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

qz.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 422 posts

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#291

Post by amelius »

IBM wrote: post #63

It's amazing to me how many comments here excuse Google's behavior by offering the impractical "solution" of just not using a smartphone (a false dilemma) when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. That's the advice of pretty much everyone in the infosec field and I'm sure some of them will attest to that in this thread.

It's amazing to me how many hardcore devs/hackers still are reliant on Google for everything they do, and don't come up with alternative solutions.

It's not like Google has a monopoly on tech knowledge.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#292

Post by chiefalchemist »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #151
mxuribe wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same exact reaction as you! :-)

It's not impossible to do. You could weave a lightweight signal-blocking mesh into a pocket without impacting wearability.

My point exactly ;)

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#293

Post by KozmoNau7 »

dTal wrote: post #272
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using F-Droid and Yalp and avoiding the Google Play Store is only an option if your needs are very limited. As far as I know, there are no widely-adopted mobile payment apps anywhere else, certainly the de facto standard mobile payment app in my country is only available on the official app stores. The same goes for banking apps and all official store membership and coupon apps, just to mention a few categories of ap…

>de facto standard mobile payment Is called cash :) It's accepted everywhere. >official store membership and coupon apps Should all be burned anyway. Plastic cards and bits of paper worked fine for decades, you don't suddenly need to run arbitrary code on my pocket supercomputer. >banking apps Safer to use the website. My bank authenticates you by having you enter your PIN into a card reader - although they have crea…

>Is called cash :) It's accepted everywhere.

A lot of people refuse to carry any significant amount of cash. It is a risk factor, especially when at events and shows or just during busy shopping hours, due to pickpockets. An app with verified identity (using the national 2FA login system in my country) is significantly more secure.

>Should all be burned anyway. Plastic cards and bits of paper worked fine for decades, you don't suddenly need to run arbitrary code on my pocket supercomputer.

It's a bunch of silly plastic cards that I then I have to carry around in my wallet or remember to bring from home when going shopping, as opposed to having the app on my phone, which I carry around with me anyway. The app automatically calculates bonuses and rebate collection marks.

>Safer to use the website. My bank authenticates you by having you enter your PIN into a card reader - although they have created a mobile app, the security is strictly inferior as phones do not come with card readers (and the passcode is different from your PIN, making you more likely to write it down).

My mobile banking app is perfectly secure, it uses the Danish national 2FA login system, used for all public services.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#294

Post by dep_b »

Accacin wrote: post #278
jaytaylor wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@literally: Yes, and with updates they're so slow as to be unusable. Apple also doesn't permit OS downgrades, truly crippling all older iOS devices.

Disproven multiple times.

I don't think there was an upgrade after iOS 7 that really made devices significantly slower. But a lot of people still have an iPhone 4 trauma. The 5S is like 5 years old and still runs iOS 11 very capably

(unless you're one of the unlucky people with whatever type of iPhone for whom iOS 11 still is borked for some reason, still having trouble on one iPhone 6S Plus with that).

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#295

Post by dep_b »

as1mov wrote: post #219
kalleboo wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever tried using one of those dirt-cheap Android phones?

The difference is the a dirt cheap Android phone will cost less than $100 for new unlocked, whereas a dirt cheap iPhone start at about $300. For $300, you could get a competitevly specced Android phone with great support for AOSP custom roms. Get one of these, flash AOSP without play services and you've got a reasonably privacy-focused phone.

For US$300 you'll get an iPhone SE that'll outrun a Samsung Galaxy S7 in most benchmarks. What's not competitive about that? Can't expect current flagship performance from a US$300 device.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#296

Post by maigret »

ehsankia wrote: post #258
horsecaptin wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But this is all just marketing, whereas the reality is that Apple could also be hoovering up location data and you may never know." It isn't just marketing. This is how the alignment of incentives works. A company's incentives are aligned with the people who pay them. Apple's are aligned with those that buy phones. Google and Facebook's are aligned with those that buy ads.

You missed the point. > Apple's are aligned with those that buy phones. For all we know, that's what they want you to believe. The fact that you are so certain this is how they are incentivized could just mean that they did a fantastic job at marketing and making their users believe this image of themselves they've worked on.

But do you have counter examples? Because here, we see one more from Google, while Apple has had a much better track record so far that confirms this view that they are walking the talk, too.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#297

Post by dmd »

whyagaindavid wrote: post #233
dmd wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you try googling "delete apple id"? It's pretty straightforward. Given that, what point are you trying to make?

There is a way to delete your data from Google or ms. Not Apple. BTW, there is no way to delete apple Id. Seriously try doing it. You cannot.

This must be one of those "alternative facts" I keep hearing about.

I literally just now created, and then deleted, an Apple Id. It's trivial. Why do you think it isn't?

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#298

Post by davohmy »

horsecaptin wrote: post #176
growse wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is true, but it's also potentially worthwhile to consider that Apple has positioned themselves as a hardware company (i.e. the majority of their money is based on selling units of hardware), whereas their main competitor here (Google) is an ad company (i.e. the majority of their money comes from selling their users' data). Apple has chosen to highlight their commitment to privacy partially because they feel it…

"But this is all just marketing, whereas the reality is that Apple could also be hoovering up location data and you may never know." It isn't just marketing. This is how the alignment of incentives works. A company's incentives are aligned with the people who pay them. Apple's are aligned with those that buy phones. Google and Facebook's are aligned with those that buy ads.

"A company's incentives are aligned with the people who pay them"

That sounds great but it can not be further from the truth. So are you saying that Comcast and the telcos of the world incentives are aligned with their users?

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#299

Post by astura »

JonFish85 wrote: post #135
lemagedurage wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple provides a black box with iOS, they have full control. Maybe the next iOS update comes with privacy intrusion because it's more lucrative. A more sensible way of dealing wirh the issue would be to use an open source Android version like AOSP or LineageOS, not run proprietary gapps, and replace its functionality with F-Droid, MicroG and Yalp-store. Your location will stay out of Apple's/Google's hands and you ca…

"Apple provides a black box with iOS, they have full control. Maybe the next iOS update comes with privacy intrusion because it's more lucrative." This is true, but it's also potentially worthwhile to consider that Apple has positioned themselves as a hardware company (i.e. the majority of their money is based on selling units of hardware), whereas their main competitor here (Google) is an ad company (i.e. the majori…

Apple is more of a lifestyle brand than a hardware company.

Edit: I was beat to the punch.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#300

Post by akx »

londons_explore wrote: post #203
sarcasmic wrote: post #32

When I'm at work, I use my work computer, which has a long lived static IP, to log into my personal Google account. I have configured all of my browsers to clear cookies and storage upon closing. I never use signed-in Google Maps, but I sometimes use it from that computer, from fresh browser while logged out. A week ago, I moved from my previous home that was close to my work, to a different city about 20 miles away.…

When signed out, Google maps' initial view is entirely based on IP address. Sure, they could use cookies, but they don't. They could also use device profiling, but they don't. The IP -> location mapping is googles secret sauce, but it collects data from a lot of places, and is for most users very accurate. We're talking street level accuracy in many cases. The data you or another user feeds into it you could easily g…

Anecdote about a bad case: I was in Barcelona for Mobile World Congress a couple years back and Google insisted I was in Milan, because the rental wifi was from there (I assume).
Post reply on HN