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Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

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Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#291

Post by eric_the_read »

humanrebar wrote: post #270
lmm wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - You at least have more than one choice. If the charity you give to performs poorly by whatever metrics you value, you can give to another one next time. You can vote out your government. Charities seem more PR-focused, and the press seems less interested in holding them to account. I have a lot more faith in government to spend money effectively than I do in private charity.

> You can vote out your government. It's exceedingly hard to end an entitlement even if it's clear it doesn't work.

It's not an entitlement per se, but Head Start is a classic example of the government program that doesn't work, but can/t be cancelled. Even DHHS admits it doesn't work[0], but it's impossible to cancel politically.

[0] https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/opre/executive_s...

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#292

Post by esrauch »

braveo wrote: post #290
jlebar wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem I have, and that I think many people have, is that fraction: 30/60 = 1/2 = getting a bit silly. But why ? I mean, are you just rationalizing? "I think 50% taxes is a lot just because I do, therefore I think it's bad policy." Or is there a logical reason that 50% is "a bit silly" but, say, 30% (or whatever your number is) is fine? This is something that Nobel prize-winning economists fight over -- exactly…

You're only 1/2 way away from slave labor at that point. And when you factor in other taxes, you pay more than 50%, it's too much. And if I choose not to pay those taxes, my freedom is taken away, so don't tell me the slave point is invalid.

His point is that the same things apply to 30% tax: you are only 2/3 away from being a slave, if you don't pay your 30% your freedom is taken away.

There isn't a rational difference between 30 and 50, the only difference is "I feel that it is too much", right?

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#293

Post by Daishiman »

braveo wrote: post #290
jlebar wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem I have, and that I think many people have, is that fraction: 30/60 = 1/2 = getting a bit silly. But why ? I mean, are you just rationalizing? "I think 50% taxes is a lot just because I do, therefore I think it's bad policy." Or is there a logical reason that 50% is "a bit silly" but, say, 30% (or whatever your number is) is fine? This is something that Nobel prize-winning economists fight over -- exactly…

You're only 1/2 way away from slave labor at that point. And when you factor in other taxes, you pay more than 50%, it's too much. And if I choose not to pay those taxes, my freedom is taken away, so don't tell me the slave point is invalid.

No, you're just 1/2 away from the point where your return on investment is not justified. And that's fine; there's a lot of perfectly valid reasons a situations where working is not worth it.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#294

Post by ferentchak »

JustAnotherPat wrote: post #283
rsync wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"How about every 60 minutes you work, 30 minutes of that is spent establishing the world around you?" I am perfectly happy to look at it that way, and indeed I do . Please don't deploy the "I'm arguing with the anti-tax guy" toolkit here - I am not that guy. The problem I have, and that I think many people have, is that fraction: 30/60 = 1/2 = getting a bit silly. YMMV.

what about passive income i.e. 0/60? Should that be taxed at 99% since you're not spending any time working for it? Conflating time worked with a tax rate seems like a red herring to me.

I always think it's interesting how we actually tax capital gains much less than normal salaries. It's weird that that income doesn't need to contribute to our society and help pay for things like Medicare but income that you work for does. My understanding is that there is some fancy economic theories that say this is the right way to do things that I don't have the knowledge to confirm nor deny. Economists aside it still feels wonky™.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#295

Post by plandis »

jMyles wrote: post #258
ianai wrote: post #47

There was a point where financing the government was a patriotic act. People would give other people War Bonds as presents. But now the patriotic thing is to trash talk which ever party is in the administration and wax poetic about governmental corruption. You can't have it both ways. You can't say no to financing your government and scorn corruption. Either you're okay paying for your government, you're okay with so…

It seems like you have omitted the scenario that seems most likely by dint of the evolution of the internet: not needing a government at all.

Ah yes, a world led by 4chan. What a utopia that would be!

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#296

Post by Daishiman »

jMyles wrote: post #258
ianai wrote: post #47

There was a point where financing the government was a patriotic act. People would give other people War Bonds as presents. But now the patriotic thing is to trash talk which ever party is in the administration and wax poetic about governmental corruption. You can't have it both ways. You can't say no to financing your government and scorn corruption. Either you're okay paying for your government, you're okay with so…

It seems like you have omitted the scenario that seems most likely by dint of the evolution of the internet: not needing a government at all.

Sure let me know how that works out in preventing pollution at nation scale.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#297

Post by jMyles »

triangleman wrote: post #276
jMyles wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you have omitted the scenario that seems most likely by dint of the evolution of the internet: not needing a government at all.

I'm sorry but can you explain the basis of your position? I don't see how the internet makes anarchy any more feasible or likely.

Although this is a topic that needs a book-level dialogue to flesh out (and there are in fact books on the topic), in a nutshell:

The internet performs many of the functions that our species previously required government to do, but does so without the need for a centralized authority claiming a monopoly on the initiation of force, which brings with it inevitable corruption, violence, division, and victimization of the world's poor.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#298

Post by jMyles »

Daishiman wrote: post #296
jMyles wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you have omitted the scenario that seems most likely by dint of the evolution of the internet: not needing a government at all.

Sure let me know how that works out in preventing pollution at nation scale.

When stacked against the bang-up job that the US Government has done, not only on the landmass over which is claims sovereignty but the rest of the world - especially the continent of Africa - I'm certainly open to solutions other than government.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#299

Post by sanderjd »

vinhboy wrote: post #17

> Nobody likes paying high taxes, but I don’t mind. How refreshing. I agree with him. Paying my taxes is a point of pride for me. It's a repayment for all those years I was poor and the government paid for me to live and go to school.

I also don't mind paying a lot of taxes. But I wish I could pay more than the tiny amount I pay to my state, and less than the huge amount I pay to the federal government, so that I could have a louder voice in how the money is being spent. I can't see how we would transition from where we are now to that system, though. I wouldn't want to see state taxes massively raised before massively lowering federal taxes, and I wouldn't want to see federal taxes massively lowered before we have replaced a lot of critical federal programs at the state level. So I've settled on being ok with paying lots of taxes the current way, where a lot gets "wasted" on things I would prefer not to pay for, but a lot also gets spent on things I believe improve my life.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#300

Post by jMyles »

plandis wrote: post #295
jMyles wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you have omitted the scenario that seems most likely by dint of the evolution of the internet: not needing a government at all.

Ah yes, a world led by 4chan. What a utopia that would be!

This seems to be nothing more than a strawman; I'm not sure what you are expecting as a response.
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