Anthony Bourdain on not having debt • Hacker News Board

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#271

Post by stickfigure » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 4:32 PM UTC

coconut_crab wrote: post #41

_vn5r wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What country is that?

Vietnam, ranks 110 or so in transparency index

Lovely country (excepting the smog in HCM) and lovely people. Until recently I had a company whose customers were primarily digital marketers in Vietnam. My anecdotal observation is that tax compliance is generally poor and enforcement is applied unevenly.

While whinging about taxes is a national pastime here in the US, we have one of the highest tax compliance rates in the world. These might be related. And it's not true that you can make taxes go away with accounting magic, although there seems to be a growing sentiment that "the other guy is doing it". Example: Bourdain's comment about avoiding taxes by living abroad is nonsense.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#272

Post by zymhan » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 4:34 PM UTC

Scea91 wrote: post #260

zymhan wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you also got to wage wars in various countries via drones and residual troop deployments and special operations. That takes up quite a bit. Also, you got to enjoy having a basic pension after retirement, as well as free healthcare for the elderly and poor. Who wants to live in a country with a bunch of poor and old sick people who can't afford food and healthcare? That sounds depressing as hell.

If you are in high a tax bracket you are actually paying way more to pension than you get back. If you saved the money yourself you would be better off.

Sure, but I believe in a progressive tax structure, so allowing wealthier folk to contribute even more to their retirement isn't anywhere near my top concern.

The amount of money you need to live on decreases relative to your income, as your income goes up. A wealthy person doesn't contribute 30%+ of their monthly income to housing, typically, nor could they come anywhere near spending that amount on food. But a poor family of 4 certainly could.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#273

Post by guyzero » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 4:37 PM UTC

rsync wrote: post #194

vinhboy wrote: post #17

> Nobody likes paying high taxes, but I don’t mind. How refreshing. I agree with him. Paying my taxes is a point of pride for me. It's a repayment for all those years I was poor and the government paid for me to live and go to school.

"Nobody likes paying high taxes, but I don’t mind." I think there's an important distinction to be made between two different sorts of "high taxes". One is a high absolute amount of taxes - you made millions of dollars in a year and therefore your absolute tax payment is relatively quite high. The other is a high percentage tax rate. I don't mind paying a high absolute rate of taxes - I think that is the scenario in…

You could move. Oh, what's that, Marin is really great and a lot better than taking the tax cut and moving to rural Nevada?

Exactly.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#274

Post by monksy » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 4:39 PM UTC

faceyspacey wrote: post #251

tinco wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

every 60 minutes I work, ~30 minutes of that work product is appropriated by government How about every 60 minutes you work, 30 minutes of that is spent establishing the world around you? From the opportunities you had as a young person, and those of your children, to the safety and security of your adult life. Half of your product is yours to spend freely, the rest goes towards the idea that you don't even have to t…

Except for here in the states 25% of the taxpayer money is going to military, intelligence and debt from past wars we know to have been bad ideas and knew all along were bad ideas. And let's just say another 25% is misspent. In a country this big and bloated, that's also likely a low ball figure. But overall, only 50% of taxpayer money is going to anything remotely properly executed and needed. That said, our public…

> That said, our public schools suck, we invest nothing in research, we don't provide healthcare until your old, and our interstate highways were built 70 years ago, and state and local governments handle needed construction now, yet they take the smallest percentage of our taxes. Some states like Nevada don't even charge state income tax.

Don't forget we build highways with the wrong material which causes a cheaper initial cost and higher future cost. (Concrete rather than asphalt)

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#275

Post by Spellman » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 4:40 PM UTC

ghostly_s wrote: post #217

brightball wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people get confused when talking about debt just because types of debt are different. Using debt to generate income = good. Using debt to buy stuff you can't afford = bad. The first pays itself back while the latter does not. When somebody like Dave Ramsey is talking about debt, he's talking about paying off credit card bills, car loans, student loans, mortgages - payments that you're making that leave you p…

I think your being a bit generous. I listened to the entirety of Dave Ramsey's 'Financial Peace University' series and I don't remember him once mentioning the concept of "good debt". In fact, here it is, on his site: >Myth: Debt is a tool and should be used to help create prosperity. >Truth: Debt isn’t used by wealthy people nearly as much as we are led to believe. http://www.daveramsey.com/blog/the-truth-about-debt

Dave Ramsey is extremely anti-debt.

With the exception of buying your house. But then only if you 20% down and 15-yr mortgage.

And, let's face it, for the demographic he is targeting that's great advice. Most got into their situation due to poor handling of debt.

However, the vast majority of other financial advisers in the world, and economists, agree that with good management debt can be very beneficial. Dave Ramsey is not the Financial God. He has a very simplified, easy-to-follow program designed for a specific set of individuals. And, honestly, the majority of people would do well to follow it to the letter. But that doesn't mean EVERYONE should for EVERY situation.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#276

Post by triangleman » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 4:46 PM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #258

ianai wrote: post #47

There was a point where financing the government was a patriotic act. People would give other people War Bonds as presents. But now the patriotic thing is to trash talk which ever party is in the administration and wax poetic about governmental corruption. You can't have it both ways. You can't say no to financing your government and scorn corruption. Either you're okay paying for your government, you're okay with so…

It seems like you have omitted the scenario that seems most likely by dint of the evolution of the internet: not needing a government at all.

I'm sorry but can you explain the basis of your position? I don't see how the internet makes anarchy any more feasible or likely.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#277

Post by TillE » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 4:47 PM UTC

rsync wrote: post #242

tinco wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

every 60 minutes I work, ~30 minutes of that work product is appropriated by government How about every 60 minutes you work, 30 minutes of that is spent establishing the world around you? From the opportunities you had as a young person, and those of your children, to the safety and security of your adult life. Half of your product is yours to spend freely, the rest goes towards the idea that you don't even have to t…

"How about every 60 minutes you work, 30 minutes of that is spent establishing the world around you?" I am perfectly happy to look at it that way, and indeed I do . Please don't deploy the "I'm arguing with the anti-tax guy" toolkit here - I am not that guy. The problem I have, and that I think many people have, is that fraction: 30/60 = 1/2 = getting a bit silly. YMMV.

If you're going to that abstract level, what does the dollar amount of the money you're "earning" even mean? Everything is part of a huge system.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#278

Post by CPLX » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 4:48 PM UTC

runeks wrote: post #177

CPLX wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general rule, really, is more like borrow only for appreciating assets (often real estate, financing a new business) and not for consumables or depreciating assets. But both your idea and mine are still rules of thumb, notwithstanding how much you wish to elevate yours to a different status.

> The general rule, really, is more like borrow only for appreciating assets (often real estate, financing a new business) and not for consumables or depreciating assets. Note the gotcha: if enough people borrow money and buy something because they think it will appreciate, it will. In other words, according to your rule, speculation can make itself appear worthwhile.

That's not really true. If everyone buys golf trips or ice cream cones the chance they will turn into appreciatirng assets is zero.

That's still basically true for most things that look sort of vaguely like assets, such as new cars, appliances, and whatnot.

Very few of the things the average person chooses to incur debt to acquire are even remotely plausible as appreciating assets.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#279

Post by patrickaljord » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 4:48 PM UTC

orthecreedence wrote: post #222

patrickaljord wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's that last option where you would be ok with having no government at all. Although, governments usually do not offer it except maybe in Liechtenstein.

The only people who should be ok with no government are practiced warlords. The rest are naive anarchists who believe in the ability for people to peacefully self-govern or selfish libertarians who think they deserve to keep 100% of what they make regardless of how far society carried them to get their wealth.

I don't think libertarians believe they should keep 100% of their income, in an ancap world a big chunk of their money would go to private competing institutions and charities. In fact some of the biggest donors to charities (and tax payers) tend to be libertarians. Also, let's not kid ourselves, we're all selfish. That being said, not saying an ancap world would be heaven on earth, not that what we have right now is either.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#280

Post by nkozyra » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 4:51 PM UTC

idiot_stick wrote: post #253

jdavis703 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going into debt to vacation in the Caribbean (which is what he did) is not the same as using it to say start a business or get an education.

> Going into debt to vacation in the Caribbean (which is what he did) is not the same as using it to say start a business or get an education. They differ only if the metric you choose to measure against the debt is "money". But some of us do things for other than money; happiness comes to mind.

Precisely. It would be totally sensible also to argue that a trip such as that one paid off even financially later in less obviously connected ways.