What I Heard from Trump Supporters • Hacker News Board

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#291

Post by puranjay » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:27 PM UTC

darkmouth wrote: post #108

We are unwelcoming to people who are factually wrong. If you deny science, basic human rights, if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries, if you feel you're entitled to things others are not, then yes, I can proudly say silicon valley as well as other liberal enclaves are very unwelcoming to such people. Lastly, we do not, and will not welcome anyone who elects a man like trump just to…

> We are unwelcoming to people who are factually wrong.

I'm amazed to see a comment like this on HN of all places.

What's "fact" today can be false tomorrow.

History is full of ample proof.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#292

Post by dguaraglia » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:27 PM UTC

austenallred wrote: post #112

Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

I moved to San Francisco from a rural town, and I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town than I would insinuating something anything less than 100% left-leaning at work here. People disagree in small town Utah, and it would be uncomfortable. In San Francisco you're ostracized. It even makes me nervous to leave my name attached to a comment like this, knowing that my…

A lot of it depends on your approach. I'm one of the brashest people around, and even I have gotten into constructive (and instructive to me) conversations about thorny topics with people, with one simple approach: don't be an asshole.

I haven't been ostracized, I haven't been "silenced" or "oppressed". I have had my ass handed to me about uninformed opinions I held, though. And that hurts your pride, but eventually makes you a better person.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#293

Post by wwweston » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:27 PM UTC

uxp100 wrote: post #81

savanaly wrote: post #7

This was a fascinating read. I myself go back and forth daily between the two positions: a) compromise and appeasement of evil is wrong, if trump and his supporters act like nazis then call them that, and b) it's totally unproductive and gets us nowhere to simply pile on joke after joke, insult after insult, millions upon millions of them on every social media and tv show available to us, on the red tribe aka the tru…

Maybe it would help you (honestly, not trying to sound condescending) to reevaluate what acting like Nazis would look like.

Any specific ideas?

I'd make several assumptions:

1) It's possible for humans to act like Nazis 2) It's possible for a democratic state to gradually become not only a host to Nazis, but become a host that's run by Nazis 3) At an early stage, many people can't distinguish between Nazis as a positive or benign force and Nazis as, well, Nazis.

So, perhaps I could use some tips. What would acting like Nazis look like?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#294

Post by rockmeamedee » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:27 PM UTC

Good job on Sam for opening up his world a bit and letting us share the newfound knowledge of "how the other half lives". I'm eagerly awaiting the next few installments:

What I heard from 100 poor people What I heard from 100 women What I heard from 100 gay people What I heard from 100 black people What I heard from 100 immigrants What I heard from 100 Native Americans What I heard from 100 chronically ill people What I heard from 100 former felons

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#295

Post by azrazalea » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:27 PM UTC

panic wrote: post #191

camdenlock wrote: post #76

None of this is particularly surprising, but it is sobering to hear it from the horse's mouth. Insane racist sexists didn't win this election for Trump; dogma did. One can no longer openly discuss certain extremely important topics (is there something inherently wrong with Islam as a belief system? Is Black Lives Matter doing good or bad things? Are women really paid less than men for performing the same work?) witho…

Why are those the extremely important topics that need discussion? What about the people who are actually being hurt every day in America (drug addicts, prisoners, trans people, poor people...)?

Just like "Black Lives Matter" doesn't mean "Only Black Lives Matter" their statement doesn't mean those are the only extremely important topics that need discussion.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#296

Post by naravara » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:27 PM UTC

Yhippa wrote: post #213

davidw wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General immigration reform along these lines is what's needed: http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-optimal-number... http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/29/opinions/making-legal-immigrat... Because the current system is really broken: see what it's like to try and immigrate, legally, from Mexico if you just want to do manual labor.

> Because the current system is really broken: see what it's like to try and immigrate, legally, from Mexico if you just want to do manual labor. See, this is what would be most interesting for me to discuss with my friends. There is obviously a demand for those services that Americans possibly don't want to do (I'm not completely clear on if they want to or not). What can we do to make this a more sane process for e…

>Republicans were almost on board but it never got over the hump for whatever reason.

The "whatever reason" you're grasping at is the latent racism of the Republican base. As much as you want to believe the focus is on "illegal" immigration the Republican base understands this as a coded dog whistle for not liking Brown people.

It's not about a marketplace of ideas, it's about signaling which tribe you align with. The marketplace of ideas happens in the policy world, not the political world.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#297

Post by true_religion » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:28 PM UTC

savanaly wrote: post #93

Afforess wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's important to remember that the "us vs them" dichotomy that is polarizing your beliefs is a fiction. Humans build up the idea of tribes because its cognitively cheap, not because they actually exist or map to real structures in the real world. You see the harsh language and think "what an angry, terrible person" and on the other side is someone who just got off a 10-hour shift working with rude customers…

I agree with everything you said. I use the purposefully archaic word "tribe" to remind myself that this feeling of tribal competition is based on our biology and was evolved in the distant past to solve problems that we no longer need to solve in the same way.

I think the issue with saying tribal competition is based on our biology, is that all our basic precepts concerning thinking are rooted in our biology.

We can no more escape our tribalism, than we can escape our desire for love and human comfort.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#298

Post by rrauenza » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:28 PM UTC

spinlock wrote: post #116

phkahler wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Liberal ideology should not be used as a fashion statement. Unfortunately it seems to be used that way today. What do you guys think? I've often wondered how many people voted for Obama just to prove to the world that they are not racist. Or in other words to show their moral superiority. I think the same dynamic was in play with Hillary - all she talked about is how "we'll make history" meaning "let's show them h…

I'm one of the few people I know who is an enthusiastic supporter of Hillary. I like her because of her track record on children's issues, 9-11 and the Iran deal (among others). I'm also conservative so I like that the last time she lived at 1400 Pensilvania Ave the government was running a surplus.

I drive Foothill Expressway in Silicon Valley to work everyday.

One of the weirdest things I noticed this election cycle was the near absence of Hillary bumper stickers. The lack of Trump ones, I understood. But when Obama ran, there were Obama bumper stickers everywhere...

But today, I notice perhaps one car a week with an H sticker.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#299

Post by mikeash » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:28 PM UTC

austenallred wrote: post #234

saeranv wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sharing. Can you elaborate on #1. I never really understood the level of hatred Hillary received. To me she seemed like any other politician.

I'll be honest; I don't entirely understand it, either. The general sentiment is that she's a crook and corrupt to a much, much greater degree than other politicians.

Conservative talk radio, and other similar media, have spent decades vilifying her. According to them, she has helped her husband prey on women, has had people killed to cover up crimes, is trying to push for a takeover of the US by the United Nations, and much, much more.

Not much of this is connected to reality, but that just doesn't matter.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#300

Post by drzaiusapelord » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:28 PM UTC

archagon wrote: post #187

AdeptusAquinas wrote: post #95

I can give him a data point from outside the US, from one of the other progressive, English speaking countries in the world, New Zealand: I don't know if it has fully sunk in yet to the US populace how completely they have humiliated themselves, on the world stage. We don't get exposed to Fox, or Breitbart, or even CNN. I get most of my international news from the BBC, for example. From our perspective, the election…

What's even more humiliating is how (apparently) indifferent — or even accepting — parts of the tech community and Silicon Valley are of this development. (See all the "it's PC culture's fault" in this thread and elsewhere.) It's overwhelmingly obvious that we're in deep shit. Regardless of their beliefs and politics, people who self-label as "smart" should be fucking livid .

Yep this. We have this "lets be friends" piece from Altman which seems to be a hamfisted way to address a rift in SV, instead of the sobering reflection of what a Trump win means for actual US citizens.

This thread is nothing but making strawmen out of liberals. I'm liberal and I do none of these things mentioned. Its incredible to me that the Trump win has left him as a being we are not allowed to criticize because "he won, drool lib-tards" and now we're being attacked because we dared support the science behind climate change, rights for the lgbq community, the benefits of globalization, immigration, equality for women, women's right to choose, women's rights to birth control, non-discrimination based on race or religion, a strong NATO, a strong EU partnership, environmental protections, and not conceding our role in the global community to blood-thirsty autocrats like Putin and Assad.

Lastly, Trump lost the popular vote by 3m votes and only a month in has a 39% approval rating and is mired in a dozen scandals that would have left a Democratic POTUS on the road to impeachment. So the idea that Trump represents anything but the typical GOP lockstep vote is ridiculous. The Electoral College works against the popular vote. There was no mandate or popular movement. If there was we'd see more votes and a vastly higher approval rating. In other words, just because Hilary was a weak candidate does not mean Trump was a strong one.

So somehow, to guys like Altman, I'm the extremist and out of touch? Come on. Lets stop putting feels over reals to make deep pocketed conservative SV financiers like Peter Thiel happy.