What I Heard from Trump Supporters • Hacker News Board

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#91

Post by GVIrish » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:56 PM UTC

RangerScience wrote: post #2

The #1 difference I notice between people I talk to who identify as the "left" or the "right" is whether America is an inclusive or exclusive "club". Also, main takeaway from this? Don't attack people. It seems like that's a big complaint from the[se] people: I've been attacked for my beliefs and values.

> Also, main takeaway from this? Don't attack people. It seems like that's a big complaint from the[se] people: I've been attacked for my beliefs and values.

Yes and no. If someone is willing to discuss their viewpoint and consider the opposing viewpoint in good faith, then I agree they shouldn't be attacked. If someone is willing to share their worldview without vitriol or hatefulness, they shouldn't have their character assaulted.

On the other hand, something I see a lot is people who are outraged that other people criticize them sharply for their bigotry. "Don't call me a hateful bigot because I believe I should be able to discriminate against gay people." "I'm not a bad person because I think Muslims should be banned from entering the United States."

What I've seen is that some people are not used to being criticized or challenged for their regressive views and they react poorly to it. They lived most of their lives experiencing zero push back for saying racist or homophobic things and very quickly things have changed. Trump in some ways has allowed those people to go back to believing nothing they're saying or doing is wrong, and that mean 'ol liberals are the problem. There certainly is a component of the far left that is out there shouting people down for having opposing views. But the truth is that tolerance is advancing rapidly and it is disorienting for people who've never had to practice it much.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#92

Post by orbitur » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:57 PM UTC

gedy wrote: post #28

savanaly wrote: post #7

This was a fascinating read. I myself go back and forth daily between the two positions: a) compromise and appeasement of evil is wrong, if trump and his supporters act like nazis then call them that, and b) it's totally unproductive and gets us nowhere to simply pile on joke after joke, insult after insult, millions upon millions of them on every social media and tv show available to us, on the red tribe aka the tru…

> Then I read a casually racist opinion from a red tribe member or hear another xenophobic policy proposed by Trump and swing right back to a. I understand and respect that - but my friends who do that seem to also turn a blind eye to riots and beatings from folks "the left". There just seems to be a lot of double standards with saying fringe wackos on one side represent the entire group, but not the the side.

> but my friends who do that seem to also turn a blind eye to riots and beatings from folks "the left"

Yes, those "left" beatings get zero widespread cultural support. Violence is not glorified by any prominent voices on the left.

Whereas racist and sexist voices on the right make a boatload of money and fill up the comments of every news article posted to Facebook. It's cultural.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#93

Post by savanaly » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:57 PM UTC

Afforess wrote: post #63

savanaly wrote: post #7

This was a fascinating read. I myself go back and forth daily between the two positions: a) compromise and appeasement of evil is wrong, if trump and his supporters act like nazis then call them that, and b) it's totally unproductive and gets us nowhere to simply pile on joke after joke, insult after insult, millions upon millions of them on every social media and tv show available to us, on the red tribe aka the tru…

I think it's important to remember that the "us vs them" dichotomy that is polarizing your beliefs is a fiction. Humans build up the idea of tribes because its cognitively cheap, not because they actually exist or map to real structures in the real world. You see the harsh language and think "what an angry, terrible person" and on the other side is someone who just got off a 10-hour shift working with rude customers…

I agree with everything you said. I use the purposefully archaic word "tribe" to remind myself that this feeling of tribal competition is based on our biology and was evolved in the distant past to solve problems that we no longer need to solve in the same way.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#94

Post by tonyedgecombe » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:57 PM UTC

dboreham wrote: post #21

Honestly not sure this sheds much light. Doesn't it boil down to: I always vote Republican regardless, sorry. I vote according to my pet wedge issue (usually guns or abortion), sorry. I'm bigoted and racist but I'm not going to admit to that. The alternative candidate wasn't very appealing so I figured why not? I liked the idea of a bomb-thrower, sorry.

"I always vote Republican regardless, sorry."

I wonder if there's more of that than we realise, the Republican vote has been pretty consistent in recent elections.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#95

Post by AdeptusAquinas » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:57 PM UTC

I can give him a data point from outside the US, from one of the other progressive, English speaking countries in the world, New Zealand:

I don't know if it has fully sunk in yet to the US populace how completely they have humiliated themselves, on the world stage.

We don't get exposed to Fox, or Breitbart, or even CNN. I get most of my international news from the BBC, for example. From our perspective, the election was between a normal, typical US politician, and a madman. And when the dust settled, you lot put a clown in charge of your country.

I remember first thinking, oddly, that the biggest loss was your media. How can anyone watch 24, or Olympus Has Fallen or any of the other films and TV shows where you glorify your president? The stern, respectable, dignified leader that the hero must protect or save? How could such a plot exist now, or in future, and be watched with a straight face?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#96

Post by rpearl » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:57 PM UTC

tn13 wrote: post #12

> One person in Silicon Valley even asked me to sign a confidentiality agreement before she would talk to me, as she worried she’d lose her job if people at her company knew she was a strong Trump supporter. It is safe to say democracy has won here. A suppressed majority silently voting for their candidate despite and over pressure on them to not exercise their choice. Only if people in silicon valley had done this b…

I think you mean: A very vocal minority used their geographic advantage (which exists because it perpetuates power for the people who got it through that advantage) and related bugs in the voting system to force a highly problematic and incompetent government into power despite the will of the majority.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#97

Post by Afforess » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:57 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #11

This one (from the "What don't you like about him?" section) I thought was the most striking: > “I, too, worry about the dishonesty. His relationship with Russia, his relationship with women. His relationship with questionable financial matters. These all worry me and were they to continue I would lose all respect.” All that stuff was covered extensively during the election. There's no reason for it to be a different…

>Basically, that person, like many I suspect, voted for Trump out of protest. They didn't think he would win, so it was safe. Well, it wasn't.

You're right, but you're missing the point. The constant attack on supporters creates no space for any sort of discussion or public changing of views. No one is convinced by a moving argument, ideas are changed slowly in quiet, not loudly in public. The constant stream of vitriol from both sides ensures that even those who want to be talked off the ledge, who are ready to agree Trump was a mistake, are stuck with the rest. This is bad for everyone.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#98

Post by splawn » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:57 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #70

shklnrj wrote: post #5

I think that when people "KNOW" that they are "RIGHT", it sometimes brings moral superiority into people. That, in addition to norms of socially acceptable behaviour, pushes people into a corner. For example - If someone goes to Bill Maher's show, anyone clapping on a conservative view point is seen as a criminal, while people with liberal point of view clap "together" as a group, with the smug arrogance of knowing t…

On the other hand, there's some dangerous censorship happening in the public school system and in the business world and in government, and I think a lot of Trump supporters recognize this and are worried about it.

censorship regarding what?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#99

Post by true_religion » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:57 PM UTC

gedy wrote: post #28

savanaly wrote: post #7

This was a fascinating read. I myself go back and forth daily between the two positions: a) compromise and appeasement of evil is wrong, if trump and his supporters act like nazis then call them that, and b) it's totally unproductive and gets us nowhere to simply pile on joke after joke, insult after insult, millions upon millions of them on every social media and tv show available to us, on the red tribe aka the tru…

> Then I read a casually racist opinion from a red tribe member or hear another xenophobic policy proposed by Trump and swing right back to a. I understand and respect that - but my friends who do that seem to also turn a blind eye to riots and beatings from folks "the left". There just seems to be a lot of double standards with saying fringe wackos on one side represent the entire group, but not the the side.

It's hardly a double standard. Fringe members of your own side cannot represent your entire group, because you are part of the group therefore you have 1st hand evidence that some members (i.e. you) are utterly rationale, reasonable, realistic human beings.

Considering your political opponents is difficult. You may not even know too many of them in real life, and even when you do---political discussion is frowned upon so at best you get a niggling thought of "Bob is a great dev, I don't understand how he could be so crazy to vote for X".

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#100

Post by austenallred » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:57 PM UTC

I moved to San Francisco from a very rural area (was working remotely from my father-in-law's farm), and there are a few things the liberals I work with simply do not understand about what's happening in "small-town America" (Disclaimer: I did not vote for Trump, and I don't consider myself a Republican).

1. People hate Hillary Clinton. Haaaate her. No, you think I'm saying they disagree with her politics, but you don't understand; many literally think she is an evil person, and they want her to burn in hell.

2. Most people don't really like Trump. They are bothered by his comments, his style, his bombastic way of living, etc. But they also don't think consider him racist or particularly sexist.

3. They are so fucking tired of identity politics. Oversensitivity, calling everything "-ist" to win an argument, trying to tie racism into everything, debates over "privilege", etc. I would be so bold as to say that if the left doesn't tone down the identity politics Trump will win a second term. Full stop.

4. They are tired of being spoken down to, told that they're not part of the America that matters, and they have a serious chip on their shoulder. It seems to them like they're being told there's only one "right" way to view the world, and it's not theirs. But they like their way of life, they don't want yours, and want politicians to generally leave them alone and let them be.

4a. The worst way to exacerbate that all of these things? To insinuate that people who vote for Trump are doing so because they're -ist or dumb or ignorant. Hillary Clinton did just that, and I saw more on Facebook about Hillary's "basket of deplorables" comment than about anything else in the election. I sometimes wonder if that was the tipping point to Trump for many middle-of-the-road voters in rural America

4. They are sick of "coastal elites" running their lives and pretending like everything is OK. Small towns are hurting. A lot. Realize the median household income in the town I came from is tight, taxes are scary, and when the seemingly rich, out-of-touch people are hand-wavy about increasing the single biggest expense by 50% when you're barely making it (food/housing is cheap) you get the hatred for Obamacare.