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The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

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Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#291

Post by speleding »

NetStrikeForce wrote: post #276
speleding wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wearing a helmet in your car would prevent a lot of injuries as well, and nobody does that. This is just a risk/reward trade off and I (as a Dutch cyclist) feel a few additional deaths on the total population is not worth the effort. And the things are uncomfortable and impractical: what are you going to do with it when you arrive on your destination? Lug it around all day? Bring a bag everywhere?

Don't you carry a bag around already? If your commute is one hour cycling in guessing you might sweat and need a shower? I cycle to work (in the UK, similar climate I guess) for about 15 minutes each way with no steep roads and I gotta be very careful with my pace if I don't want to sweat.

The country is compact enough that most people have < 30 minute bike commute, and it's flat, so people don't really break a sweat. Getting wet is indeed a bit of a problem. As children we're told "you're not made of sugar", i.e. you deal with it. (Some places provide showers for people who want to come to work jogging or race biking, but that's not standard)

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#292

Post by jacquesm »

lmm wrote: post #270
jacquesm wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are more cyclists than young agile males. And your advice only applies to those. I'm trying to imagine a 60 year old lady on a bike applying this advice and fail to see any happy endings. And where I live old ladies on bikes are extremely common. Cycling advice should apply to all cyclists, not just to those giving the advice.

What do you mean? A 60 year old lady would be safer in the main traffic lanes than in the gutter, for exactly the same reasons as anyone else - more visible from behind, more control over when cars pass them, no risk of hitting a car door etc.

Well, where I live a few million of those elderly lady cyclists (including my mom, 73, makes 100 Km trips on her bike) have reached that age simply because they know not to mix themselves with traffic faster than theirs. Living in a country where traffic has been educated to give cyclists room most definitely helps but I'd hate to see our older generation decimated because they decided to seek 'the middle of the road' all of a sudden.

Cyclists stick to the right of the road exactly so cars can pass them safely.

Anyway, I'm out of this discussion, I find it very interesting that commenters from countries where cycling is decidedly unsafe are going to lecture those from countries where the predominant mode of transportation is the bicycle on safe cycling practices. If the US would adopt half the measures of what we consider normal here when it comes to roads and other facilities for cyclists and cyclists there would adopt half the practices of what we here consider safe cycling then you might have a chance at making cycling a viable means of transportation.

In the meantime, good luck with 'assertive cycling', occupy that lane, it's yours after all and make sure you wear that helmet, you'll need it.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#293

Post by freshflowers »

juiced wrote: post #239

Bullshit. I'm Dutch, never heard of or exercised this "Dutch Reach" behaviour and I was not tested for it when getting my driver's license. Instead, you just look around and in your mirrors to see if other traffic is coming before blindly and like an asshole opening your door, it doesn't matter how you open the door after you became aware of what is going on around you. I call this behaviour the "Dutch Common Sense".

No bullshit. I was taught this. It's standard practice. You may have just had a shitty instructor.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#294

Post by mettamage »

juiced wrote: post #239

Bullshit. I'm Dutch, never heard of or exercised this "Dutch Reach" behaviour and I was not tested for it when getting my driver's license. Instead, you just look around and in your mirrors to see if other traffic is coming before blindly and like an asshole opening your door, it doesn't matter how you open the door after you became aware of what is going on around you. I call this behaviour the "Dutch Common Sense".

I learned a variation of the Dutch Reach in my driver's license test (tested in Haarlem, school teaching it Max120). He didn't give it a name or anything and seems like common sense and I think it's a better way than the Dutch Reach described in the article.

When you open the door you grab the door handle -- the thing that opens the door -- with your right and plastic black handle -- the thing that gives you more 'grip' -- with your left. By doing this you have a lot more control on closing the door as well if you still happen to accidentally open it when you shouldn't have.

I had to retract once, because it appeared I had a blindspot where I couldn't see a cyclist.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#295

Post by mcv »

smartbit wrote: post #55

It is true that getting doored is not part of the Dutch vocabulary as it is not something that happens often. But there are more reasons than grabbing the handle with the opposite hand. A non extensive list: 1) Dutch car drivers all have been bicyclist before they get their driver license, everyday to school more than an hour being nothing being frowned on. 2) Major transit bike routes have separate bike lanes, the t…

While these are certainly the ideal, there are still many places in Netherland, particularly in major cities where there just isn't enough space for a thorough redesign, where bike lanes run right next to parked cars.

Ultimately, it's a matter of awareness of other traffic, both for cyclists and for motorists. And pedestrians. You always need to watch what you're doing in traffic, and what others are doing.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#296

Post by kristofferR »

tinco wrote: post #275
wobbleblob wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've tried driving in the Netherlands, you know why so many people prefer to ride a bike instead. Well maintained, but narrow and extremely busy roads, densely packed with tiny vehicles. Wearing a helmet while cycling in the Dutch bike lanes is a bit like wearing a helmet while walking on the side walk. I used to only wear it while racing. Since I had a bad crash after being hit in the eye by an insect, I wear a…

This comment is important in how it shows biking is totally different in The Netherlands. The first type of bike most non-Dutch think of when they hear 'bicycle', where the rider sits hunched forward poised to race is not even considered a regular bike here. If you go faster than 15mph you are basically considered to be comparable to a moped and doing it without a helmet is frowned upon even here. When you are not in…

> "When you are not in The Netherlands you should most definitely wear a helmet no matter what kind of bike."

Why? It's actually not statistically safer.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#297

Post by mcv »

wobbleblob wrote: post #236
djsumdog wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of bicycles in The Netherlands is absolutely surreal. Both in major cities and out in the suburbs, bicycles are everywhere. I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Large cities in Germany or the UK or anywhere else I've seen cannot compare to the magnitude of people on bicycles in The Netherlands.

If you've tried driving in the Netherlands, you know why so many people prefer to ride a bike instead. Well maintained, but narrow and extremely busy roads, densely packed with tiny vehicles. Wearing a helmet while cycling in the Dutch bike lanes is a bit like wearing a helmet while walking on the side walk. I used to only wear it while racing. Since I had a bad crash after being hit in the eye by an insect, I wear a…

It's not just how you're treated. Research has shown that cyclists wearing helmets tend to put more trust in their helmet, whereas cyclists without helmet tend to be more careful.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#298

Post by avar »

crummy wrote: post #289
mjhagen wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would certainly not get stolen.

You're already locking your bike, you can loop the lock through one of your helmet straps (I do and have never had a helmet stolen, except when the whole bike was).

You can trivially undo helmet straps, because it needs to be adjusted it's not one solid piece of webbing.

It stops someone from just picking your helmet up and walking away with it, but it takes no more than half a minute to undo the strap, so it's not going to stop someone intent on stealing it.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#299

Post by tremon »

juiced wrote: post #239

Bullshit. I'm Dutch, never heard of or exercised this "Dutch Reach" behaviour and I was not tested for it when getting my driver's license. Instead, you just look around and in your mirrors to see if other traffic is coming before blindly and like an asshole opening your door, it doesn't matter how you open the door after you became aware of what is going on around you. I call this behaviour the "Dutch Common Sense".

The article mentions that: in NL we have no separate term for it, exactly because it is considered common sense.

As for being taught: it was taught by both my driving instructors, in the sense that I was consistently told off for opening my door using the wrong hand, even if I was very careful to check my mirrors and side. I wasn't asked to perform this feat on my driving test, but they don't need to be explicit: it's fairly challenging to exit the vehicle without opening the door.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#300

Post by [deleted] »

smartbit wrote: post #55

It is true that getting doored is not part of the Dutch vocabulary as it is not something that happens often. But there are more reasons than grabbing the handle with the opposite hand. A non extensive list: 1) Dutch car drivers all have been bicyclist before they get their driver license, everyday to school more than an hour being nothing being frowned on. 2) Major transit bike routes have separate bike lanes, the t…

[deleted]
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