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Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

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291–300 of 336 posts

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#291
One side effect of building for repairability is that objects will be bigger and clunkier, which will use more materials and cost more (and burn more fuel) to transport.

I'm all for repairability, and even better, building things that will last 25 years, not 25 months. But that will come at a different price than perhaps many expect, and in some cases, it actually won't make sense.

Money is how we measure and gate access to scarce resources. If it costs more to build repairable items, and then repair them, then it is likely the case that those repairs actually waste more resources! However, insofaras the resource being wasted is human work time, there is of course a trade-off to be made.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why tax incentives? We have too many of those already.

I'd hope that if that government had to spend less dealing with discarded products (aka trash/recycling) as a result of manufacturer actions/practices, they'd pass those savings on.

Why do you think that the government should pay for the externalities of discarded products? Shouldn't that be on the original manufacturer?

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standards can change when necessary, in a way that gives all participants in the market ample warning, so that no one goes bankrupt when the big companies suddenly change direction. When PCI was introduced, motherboard manufacturers gradually increased the number of available PCI slots and reduced the number of ISA slots until the point where most of the market really didn't want that last ISA slot as much as they ne…

The ATX standard is the reason why no one bothers buying desktop computers any more except extremists and gamers. These computers are way too large and inefficient and ridiculously noisy too, because they aren't properly engineered for sound and ventilation (because they're held back by the 90s-era ATX standard). Everyone's just given up on it altogether and now they use laptops, or worse, tablets. Even corporate des…

I am moving from a laptop as my at-home computer to a quiet-build mini-ITX system literally this week, after the last parts arrive from Newegg.

I think the ongoing market fragmentation resulting from the incompatible proprietary laptop form factors is pushing the whole industry towards consolidation and mergers, and will result in less consumer choice in the long run. I have been privately railing against this crap ever since Dell started shipping not-ATX-but-looks-like-it-at-first-glance power supplies in late 1990s. And Apple has always almost gratuitously used proprietary connectors and form factors, even when a perfectly usable standard already existed. They can all go to a Hell where nothing can interoperate without at least two adapters, and you never have both.

I was driven to the custom build when the headphone jack on my laptop broke. I opened up the case and desoldered the broken one, and the microphone jack, and resoldered the unbroken jack into the headphone jack's place. That worked for a while. Then the laptop keyboard stopped responding to about 5 keys--all of them rather indispensable for typing words. So I replaced the keyboard, and the replacement is just a millimeter too small, so it constantly pops out of its recess whenever it shifts and the plastic clips disengage. Then the headphone-jack-formerly-microphone-jack broke like its predecessor. I already knew the component itself was impossible to find to replace it, so I looked to replace the motherboard. That would cost more than a newer, more capable laptop, if the part had even been in stock.

So I'm building a system such that if anything breaks, I can just replace that one part. I can't get decent repairability without building it myself, and I can't build it myself if there aren't any rassafrassin' standards! I would have built my own clamshell computer (not even necessarily a "laptop"), but no one mass-produces an empty clamshell case for consumer sales, because there is no laptop-standard form factor. Replacement parts for laptops are always expensive, and frequently out of stock.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#294
post #39
post #4

I fail to understand why Scandinavian politics always manage to make sense. Is that cultural, historical, economical, or does the tough climate force people to think a little bit more about how they manage their society?

I see why you and many others living outside of the region would think that. Sweden is very good at only extolling her perceived "virtues" and sweeping the rest under the rug. Waaaay under the rug. There is a real moral and intellectual superiority among many Swedes that I find deeply distasteful. From environment to politics to how to bag your groceries, and yes--even close a door properly, the "Swedish way" is alwa…

I really things swept under the rug more than in most other countries? If there really is such a huge issue I imagine there must be dozens of topics that are completely ignored in Sweden, and at the same time I have a hard time understanding how any reasonably well functioning society can ignore several important areas without more direct effect on the economy?

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#295
Globalisation vs the environment

Globalisation means consuming cheap stuff made in a low cost country that does usually not last that long and transported over long distances.

Built to consume in cellphones are integrated batteries and cheap components that by design fail after three years so we buy a new phone. Integrated storage of a limited size that you cannot expand. Making things that does not last is more profitable than making things that last long why is that?

How 16 container ships pollute more than all the cars in the world. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1229857/How-1...

On one hand economists wants us to blindly consume as much stuff as possible since that is good for the economy. The other hand says we pollute the earth and use to much energy which means we need to consume more durable goods which lasts longer.

How do we integrate the environment in the economy?

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not only a matter of ability, but also of opportunity cost. For instance, when I was a teenager, I always fixed my bicycle by myself. Nowadays, I guess I could do it if I had too, but I prefer to pay $50 and have somebody else do it for me. Same goes for washing machines or similar appliance, I'm sure many people could manage to fix them by themselves by spending enough time, but is it worth it?

Here's the thing - the more disposable and non-serviceable the stuff becomes, the less likely it is you'll find someone to pay that $50 - instead of going to the repair shop down the street, you have to find the Licensed Repair Shop of the vendor, pay $200 and hope it'll be done before next month. And a new bike will cost you $199 anyway.

Yep...who repairs shoes or clothes now a days? Go out and buy a new shirt for less than $10. Furniture repair? With Ikea and other compressed wood furniture, it's not worth it to repair furniture. Consumer printers? Just buy a new one.

Heck, I can buy a brand new photo printer for cheaper than it takes to buy the ink (after rebates, of course).

I'm also surprised by this: The proposed legislation would cut regular tax on repairs of bikes, clothes, and shoes from 25% to 12%.

I can't imagine paying a 25% tax on someone's labor (I live in the U.S)

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#297
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dysfunctional, incompetent, and corrupt local government (In America) has managed to pick up my curbside trash once a week, for years. Over the past year and a half, it's also managed to pick up my curbside compost. It's also managed to provide both electricity, and running water. Most of America isn't some kind of lawless hellscape, filled with wandering ghouls, cursed with a hunger for human flesh (Despite what…

>Most of America isn't some kind of lawless hellscape, filled with wandering ghouls, cursed with a hunger for human flesh (Despite what Randian fiction seems to claim.) Mandatory infrastructure tends to work, for some definition of working. (Now, if only the same could be said about Comcast...) About half of it is. Visit the South sometime and you'll see. A lot of places still don't have recycling, much less compost…

Most of those places in the South don't have recycling precisely because they are too busy complaining about how terrible and inefficient and wasteful their government is, and how taxes and fines harm their freedom to throw whatever they want to in the garbage. To uncharitably generalize a bit.

There's that, and the belief that environmentalism is a communist plot, and that aluminum grows on trees.

If they wanted compost pickup, there'd be no reason why they couldn't have it. When you've solved curb-side garbage pickup, you've also solved curb-side recycling pickup, and curb-side compost pickup.

Comcast is a publicly traded firm.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a bad idea. Standards are nice, but companies shouldn't be coerced into using them because there can be legitimate reasons to not use a standard. It prevents innovation not envisioned by the standard. I really think the simplest way to make this sort of thing happen is to increase the minimum warranty period. If 8 year warranties become mandatory, companies will need to be able to stock replacement pa…

Standards can change when necessary, in a way that gives all participants in the market ample warning, so that no one goes bankrupt when the big companies suddenly change direction. When PCI was introduced, motherboard manufacturers gradually increased the number of available PCI slots and reduced the number of ISA slots until the point where most of the market really didn't want that last ISA slot as much as they ne…

> Standards can change when necessary

When they are mandated by law, they can't. At least not easily and not without giving lawmaking powers to a group of private entities.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this better? Manufacturers can make rational decisions on tax breaks vs additional costs. Here, they have to compete with a "easily repairable!" label from a competing product. That's hard to price.

If that was an advantage when selling, they would already have done it.

A student and an economics professor are walking across the quad.

"Look, a $20 bill!", says the student. "Someone must have dropped it."

"Nonsense!", replies the economics professor. "If there were a $20 on the ground, someone would have picked it up!"

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#300
There are downsides to repairability. It means more fasteners to come loose, and more connectors to give trouble. It means more bulky devices; you can't cram everything in as tightly if it has to come out later.

I restore old Teletype machines, which were designed to be 100% repairable. You can take them apart down to the individual parts and put them back together. Everything is attached with screws and lockwashers. Restoring an 80-year old machine is routine.

They are not low-maintenance. Each machine has over 600 lubrication points. There are hundreds of things to be adjusted. You need a sizable tool kit and two suitcases of parts for normal maintenance. And you have to study up on how to do all this. Few people want to bother with that level of detail any more.

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