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Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

theguardian.com

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Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#291

Post by oconnore »

pjc50 wrote: post #284
LyndsySimon wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, what right do you have to determine my needs? From a more practical perspective, what are you going to do about it? Are you proposing to take arms from the American people by force? How many deaths are acceptable to make that happen? To be clear, I don't mean the above as a threat or anything of the sort. I'm merely pointing out the certain result of a policy of disarmament, and the hypocrisy of using f…

It would never be an overnight event, it would take a generation of ratcheting restrictions. In that sense the "slippery slope" pro-gun people are right; the end point of incremental measures has to be a country with far fewer guns. But it looks just as feasible from an ideological point of view as ending white supremacism in the US.

Ugh, the "ratcheting restrictions" tactic is why we can't have ANY compromise on gun laws. The NRA is not stupid.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#292

Post by ksk »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #103
pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

>> police are not routinely armed I'm a gun owner and this is the key point for me. No politician is in a position to tell me I don't need my semi-automatic pistol if every day I see a patrol car go by my house with 2 fully automatic AR-15s locked between the front seats and my local police department owns an armoured vehicle. If you really think you have a plan for getting rid of guns for bad guys as well as me, pro…

You don't need a gun because nobody is going to shoot you. And secondly because even if you had a gun, I don't trust YOU to not flip out and go postal when someone looks at you the wrong way, or carry your loaded gun in an unsafe manner. From my point of view, and for anyone who doesn't know you, you are no different than a criminal with a gun. By simply owning a gun YOU increase the threat level for other people.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#293

Post by yummyfajitas »

pjc50 wrote: post #261
forgetsusername wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good point. I think it's ingrained in American culture (and the Constitution) that part of the purpose of personal gun ownership is to curb governmental power. How can gun control be justified when police are roaming around like a para-military group?

the purpose of personal gun ownership is to curb governmental power No, that's what the legal system is for. The idea of trying to have some sort of legal right to political violence (terrorism) is bonkers. Maybe it comes from the Lost Cause or something. The AR-15 has been mentioned in a couple of places in this thread. It has rather different connotations in the UK, being one of the favoured weapons of the IRA: htt…

You don't have a "legal right" to political violence, by definition. You have a moral right under some circumstances and the legal right to own guns helps gives the ability to act.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide#Rwandan_Patri...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#294

Post by magicGLASSman »

AI_Overlord wrote: post #223
magicGLASSman wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believed the negative hype about Trump till I actually listened to what he had to say in context. I don't agree with the guy on a lot, but the emotional reactions instead logical debate really need to stop >Trump phenomenon fueled on xenophobia, racism, and authoritarianism, which is scary for minorities, is an example of a gov that could go crazy. Sentences like this are not arguments they are emotional regurgitat…

-Calls most Mexicans rapists ands stands by it -tweets a statistic that most white people are killed by black people, never apologizes, refuses to backtrack -pretends he has no idea who white extremist groups or the kkk are when asked point blank whether he will disavow their support ... The list goes on and on

I'm not defending trump, I just don't see a place for emotional "-ist" words based on very selective framing of someones speech.

we need to talk about illegal immigration and criminal activity. We need to talk about Black on Black violence not just police violence. Why should he know David Duke is? and he disavowed 15 times.

I love the push back, that is what america is about having debates about important issues, not shouting down people who have different opinions.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#295

Post by unethical_ban »

skewart wrote: post #274
LyndsySimon wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do people really think their handgun is going to help them resist a predator drone strike? For a single person, or a small group? I know of no one who believes that. > The US military is vastly more powerful than any gun owner. Do people really think they can compete? The US military is composed predominately of gun owners :). > What's more, advocates of legal gun ownership often also push for more military spendin…

> For a single person, or a small group? I know of no one who believes that. Fair enough. Neither do I. I meant it as a rhetorical question because it's such an absurd thing to think, but I realize that wasn't necessarily clear. > The US military is composed predominately of gun owners :). So is the thinking that people in the military would disobey commands and join the uprising? (Or are you being entirely facetious…

>So is the thinking that people in the military would disobey commands and join the uprising?

Yes. tl;have work to do: The knowledge of the potential for large portions of the population to resist oppression by use of small arms is sufficient to deter governments from radical, direct assaults on human rights.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#296

Post by gherkin0 »

skewart wrote: post #214
forgetsusername wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good point. I think it's ingrained in American culture (and the Constitution) that part of the purpose of personal gun ownership is to curb governmental power. How can gun control be justified when police are roaming around like a para-military group?

I completely agree that the "curb government power" is a common argument for gun ownership in the US. However, I've never understood the logic behind it. Do people really think their handgun is going to help them resist a predator drone strike? The US military is vastly more powerful than any gun owner. Do people really think they can compete? What's more, advocates of legal gun ownership often also push for more mil…

> The US military is vastly more powerful than any gun owner. Do people really think they can compete?

Various insurgencies have given the US military a run for their money, even with all the advanced weaponry at its disposal. I think that a similar insurgency of Americans on American soil would be even harder for the US military do deal with than those foreign ones.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#297

Post by douche »

Loque wrote: post #22
geggam wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK govt does kill its citizens though. Without trial. The restrictions of guns by the government ensures you have no defense from the one entity that has killed more people than anything. Their own govt. http://blogs.ft.com/david-allen-green/2015/09/08/when-does-t...

Get real. Or a tin foil hat. I am mid thirties, grown up in the UK and not having guns here is amazing. People don't get shot, as a teenager in the council flats in the UK, no-one is going to turn up with a gun, or carry a gun. And unsurprisingly, people make mistakes with guns (accidents happen). I have been forever conflicted, as I love the idea of guns, I wanted them as a kid/teenager, the idea of having such a to…

I'm in my late twenties, in rural New England, and having guns here is amazing. People don't get shot, and accidents almost never happen. People that have guns typically have rifles and shotguns for hunting purposes (venison is delicious, by the way), and know enough about them to respect them and use them properly. In my state, provided you aren't a felon, you can purchase a firearm in about an hour, with a simple background check (from your local Walmart, even), and you can apply for a concealed carry permit at your local police station, which they are required by law to grant you within fourteen days, again provided you come back clean on the background check. It's a fantastic state, but then again, it's more akin to living in Iceland than the rest of the country

I'm more likely to get hit by a bus or drop dead of an aneurysm than shot and killed by anyone.

There's also just a metric fuckton of guns out there, so you'd have a hard time tracking them all down. I'm really not a gun collector, but I've personally got at least a dozen rifles and shotguns, and three or four pistols. You inherit these things... I work with a couple guys that are actually target shooting enthusiasts, and it's amazing the armories that they've put together.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#298

Post by thatswrong0 »

skewart wrote: post #274
LyndsySimon wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do people really think their handgun is going to help them resist a predator drone strike? For a single person, or a small group? I know of no one who believes that. > The US military is vastly more powerful than any gun owner. Do people really think they can compete? The US military is composed predominately of gun owners :). > What's more, advocates of legal gun ownership often also push for more military spendin…

> For a single person, or a small group? I know of no one who believes that. Fair enough. Neither do I. I meant it as a rhetorical question because it's such an absurd thing to think, but I realize that wasn't necessarily clear. > The US military is composed predominately of gun owners :). So is the thinking that people in the military would disobey commands and join the uprising? (Or are you being entirely facetious…

It really depends on the circumstances, but I severely doubt that the military would not fracture if it were ordered to attack US citizens.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#299

Post by ta0967 »

magicGLASSman wrote: post #207
AI_Overlord wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, when the gov goes crazy it is usually against some group of people. If you are not part of that group then you may actually believe the gov is quite sane. Also, all it takes is some really bad times for nice people to elect a tyrant. We've seen it before many times in history. Trump phenomenon fueled on xenophobia, racism, and authoritarianism, which is scary for minorities, is an example of a gov that…

I believed the negative hype about Trump till I actually listened to what he had to say in context. I don't agree with the guy on a lot, but the emotional reactions instead logical debate really need to stop >Trump phenomenon fueled on xenophobia, racism, and authoritarianism, which is scary for minorities, is an example of a gov that could go crazy. Sentences like this are not arguments they are emotional regurgitat…

> > Trump phenomenon fueled on xenophobia, racism, and authoritarianism, which is scary for minorities, is an example of a gov that could go crazy.

> Sentences like this are not arguments they are emotional regurgitations of fear created by endless news cycles of ad hominem attacks and half truths.

or maybe they're simple observations of the guy himself talking uninterrupted in his election rallies. i saw some on tv, it was embarrassing.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#300

Post by tim333 »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #273
rogersmith wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then on the other hand we have: Exhibit A) Switzerland, 25 guns for 100 inhabitants, two mass shootings in the last 100 years Exhibit B) France, extremely restrictive gun laws, two mass shootings in less than one year So there's that...

Let's go beyond just gun control here.. Look at Canada gun ownership there is More per capita than the United States and gun violence is practically unheard of. -- There's something else wrong w/ this country..

Wikipedia has guns per 100 residents as 113 in the US, 31 in Canada.
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