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Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

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Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#281
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of your post is you just saying things you think with no evidence, what your "gut" tells you, etc. Not going to respond to those, because they are not very interesting. Let me share one of my personal opinions with no basis in fact: cake is superior to pie, there I said it! > But what if Brown wasn't attacking the officer but defending himself? We actually got into a bit of a debate at dinner discussing if you…

All of my points are based on the parts of the event that have no clarity. They are open to interpretation. That's why I'm offering plausible and reasonable alternative explanations. Because how those events unfolded directly relate to whether it was a just shooting or not. As to your last line. I realize that legally you are correct, but I just can accept that you have to be compliant because of a badge...especially…

Totally agreed about the pie. About the other part, though...

I'm really interested to know what you could mean. Isn't it, well, kind of mistaken to feel like we shouldn't cooperate with officers? The power asymmetry is just too great, on a practical level. But beyond the cold facts, it seems like the basis of a functional society is to cooperate. In a situation where there's an injustice, the media might be able to help if you write up a compelling story, though it's true that'd be a remediation after the problem occurred. It just seems like not cooperating will cause more problems than it could possibly solve, in every possible case. So it's interesting to me, and I'd love to get your perspective on some situation where it could be helpful.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#282
post #227
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, what Brown did would have gotten any of us shot.

It literally took me 5 seconds to find at least one instance where it didn't happen that way: http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/11/24/white-man-beats-two-c... Anecdotal evidence and all that, but from a foreigners perspective, it seems America still has to deal with racial bias and a police force that is all too happy to escalate situations.

If anything, that justifies to me why tasers aren't good enough. They had a right to shoot him if he was punching an officer in the head while forcing the officer into a corner.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#283
post #93

I hope what I have to say is not as controversial as I fear, but I don't think that individual racist beliefs are as big a problem as we have been told. To look at somebody and consciously judge them to be inferior based on their skin color is so outdated and obsolete, that those who do so are fringe members of society who are typically elderly and either changing their mindset or dying out. We elected a black presid…

Racism may be an outdated 'idea', but in practice and many people's daily lives, it is reality. The American society is built on systemized racism (colonialism and slavery), and the existence and lack thereof of privilege within different groups of people is a direct result of this, and it needs to be changed, because the playing field is not level. Recommended reading:

http://www.timwise.org/2014/12/we-dont-need-nice-we-need-jus...

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thorncoyle/2014/11/an-open-lett...

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#284
post #22

What makes this discussion so much more frustrating today is that the racial biases are inherent in the system. While the laws are structured to be. Entrap, their application is decidedly not. While I, a white male, choose to do as Einstein here suggests and live a life of example, and teach my children the destructiveness of racism, my actions do not directly help those in my country who are suffering from official…

I think this starts to address your question:

http://qz.com/250701/12-things-white-people-can-do-now-becau...

And I think this article is really helpful for perspective:

http://www.timwise.org/2014/12/we-dont-need-nice-we-need-jus...

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#285
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate why you choose this particular bit? Aristotle's production is full of enumerations of the observable phenomena but the science as we know it today got going only after people started to figure out they actually should test the conclusions they drew from their observations and found out that Aristotle was in several places in fact not correct but merely blowing so much hot air to impress his audien…

Because it is part of a particularly daft bit about the number of "points" and locomotion. It is also there he insists that flies have four legs. (Yes, there is a particular insect from his area that seemingly only has four legs -- but it is still daft.)

He insists that specifically a mayfly, which does walk on only four of its legs, only ever using the other two to grip during mating, only has four legs, while discussing the locomotion of walking. Which seems fair. If legs are for walking, mayfly do only have four legs.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#286
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was just a child. It doesn't matter. We shouldn't be killing children.

This is a good point - why has everyone downvoted it?

17 year old Marines are some of the most efficient killing machines on the planet. It's why we used them in WW2. Brown was 18.

Youth alone isn't relevant. For example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacklyn_H._Lucas#Marine_Corps_s...

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#287
post #237
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe understand - as I can to some measure understand somebody who was abused as a child, grew up as a violent adult and finally when insulted by somebody strikes out and kills him - but certainly not excuse or support. Even this understanding is somewhat strained - so the problem is police thinks they should be extremely tough to citizens and always suspect they are violent and up to no good - and to prove them wro…

Two things. First, it's not like there has been widespread looting and chaos at these marches. Yes, there has been some, for sure, but the vast vast majority of these protests and protestors are peaceful. It only takes one person to break windows and light fires. Second, even if there is looting and destruction it's generally not a rational thought process that leads people to it. These are angry, hopeless, beat down…

>>> it's not like there has been widespread looting and chaos at these marches

I'm not sure which exactly "these". I've heard a real lot of reports about the mayhem recently. Maybe if you count the number of perpetrators and divide it by the number of participants in all events everywhere, the result comes out low, I don't know. But I see how much damage was done[1], and I think there is enough of them to spoil it.

>>> It only takes one person to break windows and light fires.

Unfortunately, the size of the rioting and destruction does not look like it's done by "one person" or even negligible number of persons. If it would be so, they would be easily stopped by the people around them, or by the police with the help of the former. I've seen peaceful demonstrations, and I've seen riots (the latter, fortunately, only in recording) and there's a difference that can be seen.

>>> even if there is looting and destruction it's generally not a rational thought process that leads people to it.

I appreciate it. But since I am lucky enough to still possess the capability of rational thought and not be in a situation where I no longer have this luxury - maybe I should use it and ask myself "is this the best way?"And maybe call others who also have not abandoned the rational thought to do the same.

>>> I don't condone the violence, but I certainly understand it.

"Understand" is such a pliable word. Do I understand why some people may strap explosives to their bodies and explode them in the middle of a crowded market? Yes, I do, I am not stupid and there are tons of literature written on various ways of propaganda, brainwashing, misery, hopelessness and suffering. I can intellectually follow it without excusing the heinous actions in any way. And yet, when I read "I can understand it", it still somehow has a smell of excusing it to some measure. Is my perception wrong here? Same with rioting - I can follow the genesis of what happened, intellectually, but I can not see how what is happening is in any way makes it any better and do not think it should be excused.

[1] http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/im-l...

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#288

Such self-fondling pabulum around here. If Aristotle can be wrong, so can Einstein. See: IQ data. I bet at least the number of people who posted want to say the same thing, but have refrained from posting. I bet frikkin' Paul Graham thinks the same thing (maybe gentler) - he's alluded to 'inexpressible ideas about race' (paraphrase) in one essay.

Hm, I might be misinterpreting your "IQ data" pointer, but just to be clear: variance of IQ in groups is much larger than between them.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still sounds very unlikely. Michael Brown was huge and you are not exactly well positioned for pulling people when you are sitting in a car.

With likelihood in mind, how likely is it that a person believes they can grab a holstered gun from a cop, get shot, decide to run at least 150 feet from fear of getting shot again, and then turn into a 'demon' with no fear of gunfire anymore and charge the source of gunfire?

I'd say quite likely. Some people are incredible stupid.

http://awesci.com/the-astonishingly-funny-story-of-mr-mcarth...

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Garner, from what we know, seems to be a man who did nothing seriously wrong during his encounter with the police. It is quite disturbing that this encounter resulted in his death. It's not even clear that he should have been having an encounter with the police in the first place. We can look at Garner, and see that a great injustice happened to him. Compare to Brown. The police had a very good reason to stop him (wa…

he attacked the police officer and tried to take the officer's gun. I wish this single sentence was underscored and repeated every time this issue comes up. Physical evidence confirms this sequence of events: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/24/ferguso... There would not be blood inside the police car if Brown hadn't been reaching into the car. In what scenario was it reasonable for Brown to reach in…

Yep, so he DESERVED TO DIE, right?
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